Important Poll: Everyone Please Respond

[JS999]

I just found out that in NinjaTrader 7, all charts are now set to a global refresh rate of twice per second, and there is no way to change it. In 6.5, it would be like every chart has the DisplayUpdateInterval setting at the default value of 0.5 - and this cannot be changed at all.

I have asked Ray to allow us to change this setting in version 7 on either a per-chart basis (like in 6.5), or at least to globally modify the refresh value for all of our charts.

I have some longer-term charts that I set to a refresh interval of 0.5, and then other charts that I set to an interval of 0 (updating on every tick)... but in version 7 this will now be impossible as it stands, and you won't be able to set any charts to update on incoming ticks.

At a minimum, I personally want to be able to set the global refresh to 100 ms or so, even if it's not settable on every chart. Please respond to the poll with your thoughts.

[zweistein]

On the chart I don' t care much. Also 2 seconds is fine on a chart.

But for sure I need a text display of the bid and ask and last ticks.
This should update with every incoming tick.

E.g. in chartrader or SuperDOM


Andreas

[JS999]

Originally Posted by zweistein

On the chart I don' t care much. Also 2 seconds is fine on a chart.

But for sure I need a text display of the bid and ask and last ticks.
This should update with every incoming tick.

E.g. in chartrader or SuperDOM


Andreas

The DOM I believe does seem to update fine on every tick, this is just an issue with charts. If you are trading ES it won't matter, because that instrument doesn't move a lot in terms of ticks per second, which is why some people won't care. However, on something like CL which can jump 10 ticks in a heartbeat, having a half second delay is a serious problem.

[whitmark]

I support indicators for high frequency discretionary scalpers that like to see the charts update nearly as frequently as the DOM, primarily for Level II updates. While updating as frequently as the DOM is not reasonable, clearly allowing an update down to 100ms is needed.

Whitmark

[JS999]

Well, so far we have 60% of people who think it's extremely important to have the same ability to modify the refresh rate that existed in NT 6.5, and 40% of people who don't care much. I suppose I really should have limited the poll to short-term intra-day traders, since not everyone trades that style. There are people who hold positions for hours on on end that probably couldn't care less about a potential 0.5 second delay, but that doesn't necessarily make it an unimportant feature. I suspect that all the votes for it are from scalpers or short-term traders like me. If anyone wants to add commentary on this, feel free... the more people we have requesting it, the more likely that they will add it in.

[theLonelyTrader]

Haven't read through this whole thread, but let me chime in. I paid about FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS for a multibroker license, and NinjaTrader wants to limit my chart refresh capabilities?!

It sounds to me like the software engineers are driving the process. In fact, it should be traders driving the process.

Whether anyone here cares about the refresh rate or not, that isn't the issue. The capability should be flexible -- like any charting platform that advertises itself to be a professional grade platform. 500ms is waaaay too long for some traders. In fact, why even use a DOM if your refresh is 500ms? WHY? It doesn't make any sense.

So go tell the software engineers to get back to work and do it right. Don't let them drive the process. NinjaTrader does not exist as a playground for a bunch of code-geeks. It is for traders. Code geeks are paid by traders to find solutions so that TRADERS can make money, not limit trading functionality.

This is a design FAIL.

NinjaTrader is skating on thin ice with me. V6.5 is buggy, takes way to long to load, and as of now I can't even get an accurate PnL on both of my trading accounts. Ninja tech support says: "Get flat, then repair your database." Well, I have some long term positions. Do I just "get flat" so that I can get NT to work properly? (Tells me a code geek, again, is driving the process, instead of a trader.) And part of the reason I wanted Ninja was for the PnL metrics. Repairing the DB would erase my entire trade history. So what the hell am I using this software for?

Good question. And now I'm hearing that NT7 may only allow my charts to refresh every 500ms.

Good one, guys. Really.

[JS999]

Dear NinjaTrader team:

As you can see by some of the responses in this thread, this is not an optional feature that you have removed. It is a critical element of the software. Locking the chart refresh rate at 500 ms and not making it changeable essentially makes your software completely useless for scalpers, and what is worse, this represents a feature loss from 6.5. To be honest, it never occurred to me in my wildest dreams that you would even think of doing something like this. You're supposed to add features with a new software release, not remove them!

It's one thing to eliminate the ability to process data on each incoming tick, as that is heavily CPU intensive. But there is a huge gulf of difference between each incoming tick and a potential 500 ms delay, and you have provided no functionality for anything in between. The user should be able to set a refresh delay of at least 100 ms granularity to give acceptable real-time performance, and guys, this should be settable for each chart.

Why you made a global refresh rate instead of leaving it as it was in 6.5 and simply eliminating the "every incoming tick" option is something that I just don't understand. All you would have had to do is leave the original design and make the minimum refresh something like 50-100 ms, with no option to set it to 0 as it was in 6.5.

It is reasonably important to be able to set different refresh rates for different charts, as some are longer-term and some are shorter term... a global refresh rate makes shorter-term charts suffer unnecessarily at the expense of longer term charts, and is a waste of CPU cycles. An immediate hack would be to allow us to change the global refresh rate, but ideally, you should go back and make it settable per chart.

Anyways, I can assure you with 100% certainty that if you do not add this feature back in, the response you are going to get from scalpers out there once you release it in this form is not going to be pretty. It is quite frankly ridiculous that you removed this feature in the first place, and in my opinion you should add it back in ASAP before too many other people get mad. Just my $0.02.

Originally Posted by theLonelyTrader

Haven't read through this whole thread, but let me chime in. I paid about FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS for a multibroker license, and NinjaTrader wants to limit my chart refresh capabilities?!

It sounds to me like the software engineers are driving the process. In fact, it should be traders driving the process.

Whether anyone here cares about the refresh rate or not, that isn't the issue. The capability should be flexible -- like any charting platform that advertises itself to be a professional grade platform. 500ms is waaaay too long for some traders. In fact, why even use a DOM if your refresh is 500ms? WHY? It doesn't make any sense.

So go tell the software engineers to get back to work and do it right. Don't let them drive the process. NinjaTrader does not exist as a playground for a bunch of code-geeks. It is for traders. Code geeks are paid by traders to find solutions so that TRADERS can make money, not limit trading functionality.

This is a design FAIL.

NinjaTrader is skating on thin ice with me. V6.5 is buggy, takes way to long to load, and as of now I can't even get an accurate PnL on both of my trading accounts. Ninja tech support says: "Get flat, then repair your database." Well, I have some long term positions. Do I just "get flat" so that I can get NT to work properly? (Tells me a code geek, again, is driving the process, instead of a trader.) And part of the reason I wanted Ninja was for the PnL metrics. Repairing the DB would erase my entire trade history. So what the hell am I using this software for?

Good question. And now I'm hearing that NT7 may only allow my charts to refresh every 500ms.

Good one, guys. Really.

[darthtrader]

It seems this option has also been removed from the time and sales window/tape.
I do have to say this is disappointing..The reason I dont use interactive brokers for data is I want to have the choice to see all ticks or not and not have that choice made for me.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Originally Posted by darthtrader

It seems this option has also been removed from the time and sales window/tape.
I do have to say this is disappointing..The reason I dont use interactive brokers for data is I want to have the choice to see all ticks or not and not have that choice made for me.

You will see all the ticks, none are dropped. The display is not updated per tick.

[aslane]

You are kidding right? This is a manditory feature that can not be dropped.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

All,

Please keep in mind that we are in a beta phase to stabilizethe application and test some of our decisions with respect to features, changes and enhancements. I can see that this is a hot topic for some of you and I am sure this will not be the last decision we have made that is challenged. I assure you that the feedback does not fall on deaf ears. For now, I will leave this thread open for further discussion and once all the comments are in, I will chime back in and provide some further thoughts on the subject.

[aslane]

Glad you are listening. People have been waiting a long long time for NT7, and the peaks behind the curtain look promising. I know some things need to change in order to get some of the new features, but something like this is so obvious for a short term trader. I guess I would ask if there are some other things that got dumped that you know might raise a few eye brows (especially functionality that is just dropped)?

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Originally Posted by aslane

Glad you are listening. People have been waiting a long long time for NT7, and the peaks behind the curtain look promising. I know some things need to change in order to get some of the new features, but something like this is so obvious for a short term trader. I guess I would ask if there are some other things that got dumped that you know might raise a few eye brows (especially functionality that is just dropped)?

There are maybe 400+ line items that would make it to the NT7 release notes...my guess is that somewhere in that list there are items that some may be challenged. Different strokes for different folks...Meaning, I can't speculate what might be a concern for one or be a treasure for another. Only time will tell.

[JS999]

Originally Posted by NinjaTrader_Ray

There are maybe 400+ line items that would make it to the NT7 release notes...my guess is that somewhere in that list there are items that some may be challenged. Different strokes for different folks...Meaning, I can't speculate what might be a concern for one or be a treasure for another. Only time will tell.

Well, I'd say time is telling on this poll so far. Out of 27 respondents, fully 55% at the moment are saying that this is a critical issue. Another 11% are saying that it is very important to them, and asking you to add it in.

When you take into account the likelihood that most of the respondents who said they didn't care are probably longer term traders (that would only make sense, wouldn't it??), then you are left with the inescapable conclusion that just about every single short term trader is very, very, very unhappy with this decision. Just what exactly more do you need to see? I would be surprised to see these percentages change significantly going forward.

Ray, when you are scalping something like crude oil, there are times when it can move 50 ticks in literally 100 milliseconds. Not that anyone in their right mind would try to scalp a move like that, but when that does happen, you want to know it as it's happening, not 1/2 second late. That instrument will often make a spike move of 10-15 ticks and then immediately reverse back a half second later to where it was. Now, again, you shouldn't necessarily try to trade that specific move... but you want to know about these things as soon as they happen.

This is make-or-break, Ray... not some nice little feature out of a list of 400 features that you may or may not add.

Let me make this simple for you:

You will be adding this feature to NinjaTrader 7. Whether you are smart enough to add it now after having this type of advance warning, or whether you need to get a nasty black eye about it first when the greater public at large finds out about it is irrelevant. This change will be made by you. This is not a request, it is a prediction. Do the smart thing and make it a priority to fix this reasonably quickly before every scalper using NT starts crying for your head, because you are going to be fixing it one way or another, sooner or later. I'm not sure if this has occurred to you, but your Zen-Fire brokerage partners are marketing your software as to-the-tick accurate with their data feed. That is a complete and utter joke if you limit the chart refresh to 1/2 second. Did you actually consult with them before making this decision?

There really is nothing to debate or consider here - it is a very serious flaw in your software and 55% of the people that have responded to this poll so far are trying to tell you that. Please listen.

[cls71]

Anyway, you can refresh the chart when you want by overriding the OnMarketData method and then ChartControl.Refresh() or ChartControl.Invalidate();

(I think that is not a insuperable issue by code. But yes, my vote :
This is very important to me! I want the ability to modify the refresh settings! )

Best Regards