Charts still periodically fail to update?

[kh_model]

In my experience, every version of NT 6.5 that I have tested has had the tendency to periodically fail to automatically update charts with live data even though live data is visible in other windows such as Market Analyzer. I currently work around the problem by performing the following steps for each "dead" chart: "Format Data Series", and set the current date to "Today". Unfortunately, the workflow that I use does not seem to work in pre-market. As a result, I often experience unacceptable delays due to chart redraws during the first few minutes after the open. I know that NT has been aware of this issue, but I am worried that people are acting as if the issue has been "resolved", since there is so much evidence to the contrary in my little world...

I use IB data, and there are two charts in each of two workspaces. One chart is 5 minute, another is 60 minute. I use RTH sessions based on EST, from 9:30 AM to 4:15 PM. Not unusual expectations, right?

One thing I often do, to compensate for the lack of a "copy chart" feature in NT, is to copy the entire contents of what is between the "ChartObjects" xml tags from my 60 minute chart to my 5 minute chart. This places the analysis in both timeframes, which saves a lot of work. I like to see the 5 and the 60 minute timeframe for ES on dual screens and flip between two related markets such as ES and YM while observing support and resistance areas common to both markets. I hope that such basic and obvious operations are not contributing to "corrupted" charts because I'd have to stop using NT rather than give up the functionality.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have on this matter.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

Thank you for your post.


You mention that you change the Last date to todays date to "fix" the problem. You should already have this set to the current date to see live data. Are you changing the Last data in the Format data series window or are you just reselecting it?

I suggest saving the workspace with the current data selected in the Last data field.

If this does not fix the issue please let me know.

[kh_model]

thank you Ben for your reply. I am sorry to say that when this kind of thing happens, my concentration level is not always sufficient to remember exactly what settings and changes were required. I usually just select the "Today" button, in order to avoid messing with the calendar and possibly choosing the wrong date. Also of note, NT6.0 runs without problems here, but we all know that it only supports one workspace so maybe it is not a good comparison to running NT 6.5.5 with 2 workspaces of 2 charts each, plus 2 T&S and one MarketAnalyzer per workspace.


By the way, I am currently running Win2K Pro, Sp3 with dotnet framework 2.0, also using TWS 884 with API 9.41 and NT 6.5.5 if that info is helpful. P4 2,4 Ghz, 1 G RAM, and I would say that memory and cpu do not appear to be extremely overtaxed while running NT.

I understand that support must deal with users of varying levels of competence, but I want to re-assure you that my workflow is not the following: "manually select the wrong date and then post the resulting problems to this forum".

[NinjaTrader_Michael]

Hi,

Please send an e-mail to support at NinjaTrader dot com letting us know what your issue is so we can resolve it.

[dotditdot]

I have also noticed the same problem as well, it seems as if NT gets stuck on some previous day in the past and doesn't update charts. Market analyzer, etc work fine. I also solve the problem the same way, by going into the formatting data series menu for each chart, and setting the last date to the current day. Unfortunately I'm unable to reproduce this in any consistent fashion.

[kh_model]

Thanks for backing up my claims! Your problem/workaround description fits with my experiences precisely.

It is not really a workaround, however, for those who wish to monitor bid/ask volume delta, because NT cannot save that data to a database and therefore it is completely lost as soon as the chart is refreshed. Kind of a "showstopper" in my opinion...

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,


Thank you for your feedback.

If you could take note what the "Last date" setting is prior to trade, then what the "Last date" setting is when you reset it, that would be very useful for us in determining what the issue is.

Also, the next time this happens please immediately send us your log and trace files from Help>Mail to support so we can look at what your settings are. Please include what steps you have taken most recently.

What time does this occur? Is it out of your session times? Does this happen if your session ends and begins times are set to 12:00 AM?

[kh_model]

Thanks for your reply Ben.
This morning I think I observed the following conditions as outlined below.
I will try to collect the logs as you requested, but it may now be too late (until "next time")

I opened the workspace at about 4:00 am EST (pre-market)
-some charts use session = 12:00 AM - 12:00 AM (added for experimental purposes)
-other charts use session = 09:30 AM - 16:15 PM
-shortly after 4:00 am, all chart titles read "ES 09-08 8/14/2008" even though today is 8/15
-incoming live data is visible in MarketAnalyzer and Time&Sales windows
-"Format Data Series > LastDate" reports correct date of 8/15
At about 4:30 am EST, I apply "Format Data Series > Today", with the following results:
-charts with "overnight" automatically reload
-charts with "overnight" session now show incoming live data
-charts with "overnight" session now report 8/15 in window title bar
-charts with "daytime" automatically reload
-charts with "daytime" session still show no incoming data
-charts with "daytime" session still report 8/14 in window title bar
At about 10:30 am EST, I observe that conditions are still the same as in pre-market, such that charts with "daytime" session are still not updating even though it is now well after the open. Charts with "daytime" session still report 8/14 in window title bar even though today is 8/15, and "Format Data Series > LastDate" still reports that today is 8/15. As before, charts using "overnite" session are still working as expected. At about 10:45 am EST, I apply "Format Data Series > Today", to the "daytime" session charts only, with the following results:
-charts with "daytime" automatically reload
-charts with "daytime" session now show incoming live data
-charts with "daytime" session now report 8/15 in window title bar

As for the seemingly "random" nature of this problem, I currently have not isolated any pre-conditions that are consistent with it. I do have a suspicion that my habit of copying the .mdb database file from one computer that runs NinjaTrader 6.0 over to the other computer that runs NinjaTrader 6.5 at the end of certain trading days might have a correlation to when the problem occurs, and when it does not, but I have not formally tested that yet. I will try to do that next week.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

Thank you for the details.

From your description it sounds like the current data is not selected in "Last date" in the format data series window upon pulling up your workspace. The Last date is saved in your workspace.


Please pull up the workspace now. Do you see the current date or yesterdays date? If you see yesterdays date, please right click the chart with yesterdays date in the title >Format data series, and change the date to the current date. Now save the workspace by shutting down NinjaTrader and select Yes to all. Now restart NinjaTrader and open the workspace. Do you see the current date now?

Generally I am trying to get you to resave the workspace with the current day selected.

[kh_model]

Thank you Ben for clarifying and repeating the advice that was provided yesterday.

Unfortunately, to test your suggestion now I have to stop collecting data, so I will try your suggestion out when I have my next opportunity to do so safely on Monday (my downtime/exit/restart schedule is about one hour per day after market closes).

I will let you know how this goes. One thing I need though, is to be able to launch charts in post-market one day prior to when they will be used, and then collect uninterrupted data overnite for use during the next day, without refreshing the charts in the meantime. I hope your suggestion will not prevent this. Also, I prefer to reduce memory useage by not re-opening workspaces unless NT is closed first, so I will need to keep an eye on possible over-useage of memory when I try your suggestion.

Basically, if you have provided a useable workaround then that is something for which I am very grateful and I want to thank you now while I have this chance. In the bigger picture however, on a product-useability level, this kind of problem should not be the user's responsibilty to compensate for as keeping the correct date/time on charts is a problem that other charting packages like Tradestation do not seem to have. As traders, we only have enough resources of time, concentration, and energy to perform a limited number of workarounds before each trading day, so we need to save our workarounds for the truly unavoidable situations, and I already have a lot of those without adding this new one

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

This is not a workaround. I am simply having you re-save your workspace with the proper "Last date" selected.

"Last date" is a feature that allows people to limit the data that is shown on the right side of the chart. You are correct, other platforms may not have this feature/option. When used properly it works very well.

If this is not the issue and solution, I apologize. However this does sound like the solution.

[mrlogik]

Unfortunately, to test your suggestion now I have to stop collecting data

Just as an aside, you can collect data using the Market Analyzer with a simple indicator (I have one calculate the spread) set to update on Ticks. I have this for multiple pairs so if my charts do freeze I have some calculation going on which will force NT to continue to collect data.

just some fyi in case you're losing data due to this ...

[kh_model]

limitation with "LastDate"

Hello Ben, please consider the following scenario: a problem with forcing the user to manually set "LastDate" and then save and reopen workspaces is that one cannot set "LastDate" to 8/15 successfully if today is still 8/14, so if one wishes to be prepared "in advance" for pre-market trading the next morning, one may be forced to launch NT after midnite when it really is "8/15", then save and reopen workspaces, then get up a few hours later without much sleep for trading at 6 am or earlier depending on what markets one trades, and repeat day after day. Other programs that use "LastDate" have implemented it without these issues as far as I can see. On the other hand, if "LastDate" could simply be made more flexible, so it could save tomorrow's date instead of just today's date or a date before today, then it would be much less of a problem.

Thanks also to "MrLogik" for the tip about MarketAnalyzer. I use the same approach already, but other problems arise if one is collecting live bid/ask data because there is no database storage for that, and no historical backfill either if I am not mistaken.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

The Last date setting should be set for the current day only. In your example below, setting it for the 15th though it is the 14th, is NOT what I want you to do.

Once set to the current day it should always stay current. I.e. it will automaticaly change the the next day once the date in your PC clock rolls to the next day. I think you have it set to yesterday and it stays set to yesterday until you reset it. Once you reset it, it is not saved in your workspace so it reverts back to the yesterday setting.

In otherwords you can set Last date to the current date at any point you want. I am sorry if this is inconvenient for you but it is how fix the issue.

I may be wrong but this is the most likely reason for this happenning.

[kh_model]

Hello Ben,

Just a quick follow up on my attempts to follow your workflow so far.
I opened my NT workspace on Sunday 8/17 around 17:11 EST, and I took note of the "LastDate" for all charts via "Format Data Series". I observed that "LastDate" was set to 8/17, even though charts still reported 8/15 in their title bars. I then exited NT, because I normally rely on NT's "save all" feature to automatically save my workspaces (and charts) when exiting NT. I reopened NT at about 17:40, and ran it overnight while collecting data.
Of course, when the charts were open again the "LastDate" was set exactly the same way as before.

Now, on Monday morning it is once again after the open, and I am getting the same behavior as before: dead charts at the beginning of the session on 8/18 at 9:30 AM EST.

I saved the trace, and I have attached it to this message.

Tonight, after the close I will try once more to apply your workflow. This time I will explicitly save each workspace prior to exiting the application and restarting it. I will not know the results until after the open on Tuesday morning.

As an aside, I also noticed in the attached trace log that NT recognizes only 512 MB of my installed 1 GB of physical memory, as reported in taskmanager.