Orders below last traded price

[zikonc]

Hi....I just noticed that in SIM mode you allow a STOP order to be placed below the last traded price. Why??? It is very misleading since in live trading you cannot place such order, or is my NT not setup correctly?....thanks, zikonc

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi,

Thank you for your note.

When placing a stop order below the last traded price I get a message stating that buy stops can not be placed below the market/sell stops can not be placed above the market. In this case a limit order would be used, and this is how NinjaTrader works in real-time and simulation.

Can you please clarify what steps you are taking that enable you to place stop orders below the market on the buy side, and stops above the market on the sell side, because this should not be supported.

[zikonc]

Hi......you do allow in SIM mode to place stop orders below last traded price.....see attached picture....try grabbing a price marker a drag it well below the currently traded price (STEP 1) .....you will get fill on the next traded price (STEP 2)........if you repeat the same task in live mode you will get an error message stating that you cannot place an order below the last traded price........

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi,

Thank you for that clarification and the suggestion.

I have tested this and am able to place those kinds of orders after modifying them rather than submitting them on that side.

I will pass this along to development so that in future versions of NinjaTrader our simulated traded can more accurately reflect this aspect of order modification.

[zikonc]

it is very disappointing to learn that your SIM engine is built with such a big mistake........I sim traded fast market for couple weeks now to learn that going live I cannot execute trade as I did while learning the market......oh well, I only paid -$170 to beta test your SIM engine........ :mad:

[zikonc]

if technically possible, I suggest revising the execution of the live engine to mimic sim engine ..... fast markets are fast these days and in this case if STOP SELL order was placed above the last traded price live engine should execute it as a MARKET SELL order as the best available order for that instance ....... alternatively I can just click on SELL MARKET button and be done with it .... and you loose $50/month subscription.......just my 2c

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi zikonc,

Thank you for that information.

I have continued testing this using NinjaTrader 7 and when I modify a stop order placed above the market the order type is changed to reflect the types of orders that are acceptable below the market.

So if I place a Stop Limit order above the market and then modify it to be below the market it will become a limit order as stops are not accepted below the market.

When modifying orders in this manner you are changing the order type as well as the price. This is acceptable with live trades so long as your broker supports price and order type modification.

Again these tests were with NinjaTrader 7 rather than 6.5. So based on your suggestion this is how it functions with NinjaTrader 7.

[zikonc]

Thanks for the reply......I guess it may be the end of work day for me so I am not sure I processed your explanation of what was tested in NT7......basically, can I enter the live market as I've shown in the post #3 (please see the video as well, attached as .zip file)......my broker is Mirus......I can check with them also once I get confirmation from you what is supported in NT......

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi,

This type of order manipulation, say placing a Stop Market above the market then moving below should work. What happens in NinjaTrader with the changed order is that the Stop Market above the market becomes a Market order below and should be filled immediately.

So, NinjaTrader is changing the order type as well as the price of any order that is modified as such.

The caveat here is that your broker may not allow you to modify order type of pending orders, which would cause that issue.

I should clarify that I tested this with NinjaTrader 7.

[zikonc]

Thanks....it sounds I should dive in to NT7 world......but before I spend time converting workspace and indicators do you mind confirming again that you found this order modification to work in NT7 but not in NT6.5.

ie,

NT6.5 sim => OK
NT6.5 live => n/g

NT7 sim => OK
NT7 live => OK

???

....if so, I'll give Mirus a call to find out what can/cannot be done on their end......

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

zikonc,

I continued testing this on my end with 6.5 and see the same behavior as I do with NinjaTrader 7.

Stop Limit orders modified from above to below become limit orders. So, if your broker enables order type and price modification of pending orders it should be doable with NinjaTrader 6.5, as well.

[zikonc]

Hello.....I just got of the phone with Mirus and I was told that Mirus does not allow this sort of order modification .... this information was passed by on-staff developer......so it is not Ninja software, not Exchange, not Dorman, (I also spoke with someone in Dorman on this issue just in case).....but MIRUS.....I was told by Dorman that Mirus=Ninja so now I ask again why allow the use of order execution feature in sim mode that is not supported in live mode ???? .....

maybe only MIRUS can scalp (you) ........you cannot scalp ....... or, from food chain point of view they eat first or at least before you........this is a very serious issue where a broker is playing its customers in order to gain personal advantage .....

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi,

This is what I expected. NinjaTrader does not place limitations on how you can place orders. Some brokers allow this type of order modification, but Mirus does not. So when you try doing that live you receive an error message.

When doing this with sim trading you do not receive an error message because NinjaTrader does enable you trade this manner because not all brokers prevent this order type.

[zikonc]

When I sim trade through Mirus using Ninja Trader my intention is to simulate live trading environment with Mirus as a broker and Ninja as a trading platform ....... let's not separate two apart ......... Mirus ID was used to establish sim and live connection ...... the same ID must then control what features of Ninja are enabled ..... otherwise what is the point of sim trading engine???? ........

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello zikonc,

When trading in simulation, you will trade the NinjaTrader sim101 account, which does not have the limitation that the Mirus live account has. Using the same ID (Zen-Fire connection) is not related.

We support other connectivity providers besides Mirus/Zen-Fire that allow such order modifications, so it is allowed in the NinjaTrader sim101 account as well.

NinjaTrader and Mirus is not the same. Mirus Futures is one of our supported broker partners.

[zikonc]

Hi Jason....I think you are not quite correct.......data feed and NT has been provided to me by Mirus.....someone has misrepresented its services......is it Mirus, NT or both ...... it is my belief that Mirus failed to inform what NT features will not be supported when switching form simulated account to a live account ....... if one is to learn this fact by suffering a financial loss you can be assured that either or both companies are exposing them self to a legal action .....

[zikonc]

We support other connectivity providers besides Mirus/Zen-Fire that allow such order modifications........

Hello,

I spoke with at least 5 NT Partner Brokers and none of them support this kind of order modification.......would you please be so kind and provide 2-3 broker names so that your claim can be verified ...... thanks

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello zikonc,

I tested it on an Interactive Brokers demo account and I was able to perform the modification. Unfortunately I am not sure what other brokers support it; you can find a list of supported broker partners at the link below.
http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/partners_onlinetrading_brokers.htm

[zikonc]

Hello zikonc,

I tested it on an Interactive Brokers demo account and I was able to perform the modification.

Hi Jason .... the point here is to test it on LIVE account since that is how we can make money ....... please read the thread from the beginning before posting comments such as this one ...... I know it works on SIM and I am asking you to prove your statement true from thread # 15 & #17 with the list of brokers that support order modification as previously described ......

I inquired with top 5 brokers from your list and none support this feature ...... who do you know that supports it????????.............thanks

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi,

The reason that those brokers do not is that many of them use the same data provider. For this kind of order modification you will want to focus on data providers that are also brokers, such as IB or MB Trading.

However, I can not verify if this is true with these brokers, as you will want to contact them. For more details on this you may want to send an email to sales[at]ninjatrader[dot]com, too.