New Order Handling and Modification Approach

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Hi all,

I am very challenged with how NTV5 should operate from an intelligence standpoint. I urge you all to please provide comments as your input will be considered heavily on what I decide to do.

First the changes -

- In V5, any order qty increases will be accomplished by adding additional orders as opposed to modifying the existing order. So if you have an entry order for 1 contract and increase it to 2, you will now have 2 entry orders. The value here is that the original order does not get removed for the order queu. I stress that this is a highly valuable approach in that you will gain considerable competetive advantage in getting your orders filled.

- Carrying on from the above point, when you scale into a position, NT modifies all existing stops and targets. From a visual standpoint this would still happen but now NT will add additional orders to your target. Again, this keeps existing orders in the queu and provides you with a considerable competetive advantage.

- Stop loss orders can be separated. This means you can have stop losses at multiple levels and individual trail stop parameters on each stop loss

- From a display standpoint, NT will aggregate all orders so that you will havea clean display. Using the same example, if you have one entry level but it is made of up multiple orders, NT will display this as one order. This keeps things clean and allows you to manage all orders at this price level as one order unit.

- You will now be able to scale in at multiple price levels to enter a position.

To manage all of these orders in real-time is very complex and it pushes the current NT appproach. Specifically -

- The single click order price change capability does not fit with the above model. NT would now need to be drag and drop. This means instead of clicking on a new price to modify an order, one would have to click, drag to new price then drop to accomplish order price changes.

- Currently when changing the order size of target 1, NT will automatically adjust the order size of target 2 accordingly. With the new approach (without going into every detail) NT would not be able to accomplish this 100% of the time. Therefore, I would remove this piece of intelligence. Users would have to do this manually.

- Currently, all targets are classified as Target1, Target2 etc...This would likely be removed and be replaced with a single classification as TARGET. As a result of this, you could actually have more than 3 targets now.

So here are the questions...Speak up or forever hold your peace!

In order to gain the advantage of leaving orders in the queu when possible, are you willing to use a drag/drop order modification approach instead of the single click approach?

For those who like changing the order sizes between targets, are you willing to now do this manually?

Thanks for listening.

Ray

[Up]

I only use NT for automated trading, so I don't care much about the user interface.

However I would like more options for automated trading:

1. When I send a CLOSEALL/CANELALL I would like to see the closing fill price of my currently open strategy in the PUF.

2. I would like an option to query the account balance. That's crucial for automatically calculating position sizes.

3. I would like an option for choosing a different position size with any existing strategy in the order file. Currently I have 1000 strategies defined, just to cover all possible position sizes I want to auto-trade. That's really no fun.

Regards,

Up

[Lupus]

Notwithstandingthat tradeoffs are tough and thatRay is smarter than average, both of the tradeoffs identified cause a trader to slow down a beat, which may not be an issue much of the time but could be in a fast moving market whenvolume isrocking.

I may be a complete klutz, butmy accuracy in dragging and dropping scares even me. My hand-to-eye coordination being what it is,trying to do it really quickly in an adrenaline-charged moment scares me even more.

Having to do things "manually" usually resultsin trying to find a different way to do it that doesn't involve "manual". If there is no other way to do it, it stands out as a potential issue.

Just my two cents (less fees and commisions)

[QQQ]

I don't know how you invisioned the dragging and dropping of orders but maybe you could possibly add levels to the top and bottom of the price matirx in the superdom window that show stop and target prices. Regards if this is what you had invisioned, I'd like the ability to see my stops and targets in the price matrix.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

This would be the difference,

Currently

Target 1 at 1000, want to move to 1001, you would simply click at 1001.

Proposed

Your would click and hold the mouse at 1000, drag to 1001 then let go of your mouse.

It is slower and not the approach that I prefer but one must put it into context. Changing order prices is not something one does 10 x a second. It's also easy to do when there are only a max of 3 targets allowed. That is the current NT. When adding the capability to preserve order queu status, additional target orders can potentially be added. This means that there could be more than 3 actual orders working. Here is a real time example -

You have 3 targets. You scale in. Now target 3 has 2 orders since one was added to reflect new position size.The DOM displays that you have 3 targetsbut there are 4 actual working orders (2 at target 3). You now modify the price of target 3.There is a possibility that the exchange/broker rejects the modification of one of the two orders at target 3.The DOM nowhas to display that there are 4 separately priced targets. If this happens,current NT approach does not have mouse combinations for modifying a 4th target with a single click. Therefore, having a drag and drop approach allows one to modify each individual target ifrequired.

The same problem also exists for those who want to submit multiple limit orders to scaleinto a position. Need a way tobe able to modify each individual scale order.

Ray

[CB]

Being able to scale into multiple price positions is a very good idea. I think trade maven has had that capability. I have no problem with dragging and dropping.

[ckapilla]

I have to agree with Lupus thatusing drag and drop while 'under fire' is somewhat scary. Of the new features mentioned by Ray the only one that really matters to me is the ability to scale in to a position at different price levels. One simple way to implement this in the UI would be to use a 'Control-click' or a 'Shift-click' for adding asecond entry level. I have been wanting this for a long time and hope it can be implemented.

thx

[Scott]

Dragging and dropping to change the order size ?
We all have our priorities, but forcing the user to drag and drop the price rather than just click to change ... Im not a fan.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Scott wrote: Dragging and dropping to change the order size ?
We all have our priorities, but forcing the user to drag and drop the price rather than just click to change ... Im not a fan.

Not order size, just price.

So if you have had a target order resting for 20 mins, you are near the front of the line to get filled. You add to a position which results in that order needing to be modified. You would rather the order be taken out of the queu, modified and then placed back in at the end of the line?

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

ckapilla wrote: I have to agree with Lupus thatusing drag and drop while 'under fire' is somewhat scary. Of the new features mentioned by Ray the only one that really matters to me is the ability to scale in to a position at different price levels. One simple way to implement this in the UI would be to use a 'Control-click' or a 'Shift-click' for adding asecond entry level. I have been wanting this for a long time and hope it can be implemented.

thx

What is interesting is that every other product out there is drag and drop. NT is the only one that I am aware of that is not.

[meyer99]

Ithink adding the scale-in feature will be very valuable, but drag and drop to modify existing orders in not a good idea when you are trading 5 minutes timeframes or faster in active markets. I tried that before with TM and made several unwanted trades.

[Shiva Swinger]

Drag and Drop is in my opinion a step backwards. For years I have placed an order with a stop and 2 targets manually. Then Ninja came and it did it automatically, no mistakes. When I need to make a change if I have to drag and drop I can make mistakes. They can cost big mistake money. The mouse can stick right when it hurts. My finger can slip or a nervous twitch will drop it in the wrong place.

Keep it simple is my vote. no drag and drop.

I've had my say now I can forever be peaceful.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

meyer99 wrote: Ithink adding the scale-in feature will be very valuable, but drag and drop to modify existing orders in not a good idea when you are trading 5 minutes timeframes or faster in active markets. I tried that before with TM and made several unwanted trades.
Unfortunately you can't have both. That's the unfortunate part about it. That's why I am raising the issue.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Shiva Swinger wrote: Drag and Drop is in my opinion a step backwards. For years I have placed an order with a stop and 2 targets manually. Then Ninja came and it did it automatically, no mistakes. When I need to make a change if I have to drag and drop I can make mistakes. They can cost big mistake money. The mouse can stick right when it hurts. My finger can slip or a nervous twitch will drop it in the wrong place.

Keep it simple is my vote. no drag and drop.

I've had my say now I can forever be peaceful.





Ninja will still do that. Please enlighten me on how dragging and dropping of an order can result in a mistake. I want to make sure I have all the angles.

[aspTrader]

Acouple thoughts...


It's important to distinguish the objective (enable retaining existing order queue position when adding adding size) from the implementation approach (I guess dragging and dropping). IMO, the former is a critical requirement. Perhaps the suggested implementation approach is the only way to do it, perhaps not.It appears some folks don't like the drag and drop approach. I personally don't have a problem with it and if that's the only way to achieve the critical objective (retain existing order size when adding size) then I would say do it.
If dragging and dropping is the only way to accomplish the "keep the queue position" objective, then, I wonder if it's possible to have two alternative UI techniques as options selectable within Settings Manager. One setting keeps the exisiting approach. The other setting would invoke the new approach.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

aspTrader wrote: Acouple thoughts...


It's important to distinguish the objective (enable retaining existing order queue position when adding adding size) from the implementation approach (I guess dragging and dropping). IMO, the former is a critical requirement. Perhaps the suggested implementation approach is the only way to do it, perhaps not.It appears some folks don't like the drag and drop approach. I personally don't have a problem with it and if that's the only way to achieve the critical objective (retain existing order size when adding size) then I would say do it.
If dragging and dropping is the only way to accomplish the "keep the queue position" objective, then, I wonder if it's possible to have two alternative UI techniques as options selectable within Settings Manager. One setting keeps the exisiting approach. The other setting would invoke the new approach.
I agree that the maintaining order queu position is critical. Seasoned traders will see this approach as a serious competetive advantage. There is nothing worse than watching trades go off at your limit price only find out YOU are not getting filled.

That being said, I have considered havetwo UI approaches but there is some downside to this.

1) Two very different options for usability is bad design in the long term. Creates confusion which results in a complex product to understand. NT does not need any more surface complexity.

2) NT requires more flexibility when it comes to displaying all orders for a certain market/account combination. Currently, NT is restrictive in that you can only have one entry order, X number stops/targets etc. The problem is if there are other orders lingering around (for whatever reason) that don't conform to the current strategy approach, they will not display in the DOM. I feel NT needs to be able to display all orders even if they are not managed by a strategy. Without drag and drop, this is not possible.

I have looked at 15 other DOM products out there and every one of them uses drag and drop.

[Shiva Swinger]

It seems Drag and Drop is a way of staying in our original position ahead in the queue. That is good, so is there a way of having this as an option without losing the present way. The least "thinking" during trading the better. This drag and drop seems to cater for traders "thinking" during a trade as opposed to executing the trading plan, which Ninja does brilliantly.

Just don't want to lose something before being convinced the new way is better.

[kenjelli]

I understand you propose removing the capability to move orders with one click on the DOM. I use this constantly when keeping a target ahead of a fast moving market or moving up a trailing stop and consider it a prime feature. Drag and drop is just adding more complexity to this but might work after getting use to it.

Most of my strategies involve stops and targets more than 2.3 points away from entry so they are not visible on the DOM when an order is entered. My DOM is 23 spaces high or 2.3 points in the eRussell. That means I can not reach anything more than 2.3 points away from the present price in order to drag it. One must be able to see a target or stop to drag it. One fix would be to allow scrolling of the DOM beyond present price action. Another would be to allow the number of DOM spaces to be adjusted. I prefer both options for readability and convenience in moving up or down in the DOM.

I am no too keen on removing automatic order size adjustment or any other piece of intelligence. DOM intelligence is of great importance to me to prevent errors in trade management. It is the main reason for having a smart DOM in the first place. Having to manually adjust is a step backward in my view.

I would also like to be able to adjust the overall DOM size to take up less screen space. It now occupies one quarter of the screen which is excessive when working with one screen such as on a laptop.

Thanks for considering our inputs, Ray.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Shiva Swinger wrote: It seems Drag and Drop is a way of staying in our original position ahead in the queue. That is good, so is there a way of having this as an option without losing the present way. The least "thinking" during trading the better. This drag and drop seems to cater for traders "thinking" during a trade as opposed to executing the trading plan, which Ninja does brilliantly.

Just don't want to lose something before being convinced the new way is better.

Believe me, if I could preserve the current interaction and preserve order queue position I would. I have had programmers block all weekend trying resolve this and I am just plain stuck. This is why I am asking the user community what they think.

My current thought process is that the benefits received from preservation of order queue position far outways the innefficiencies of drag and drop. The fact that all other DOM products are drag and drop provide me with some comfort that I would not be imposing an unreasonable approach on current and future NT users.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

kenjelli wrote: One fix would be to allow scrolling of the DOM beyond present price action. Another would be to allow the number of DOM spaces to be adjusted.
I am no too keen on removing automatic order size adjustment or any other piece of intelligence. DOM intelligence is of great importance to me to prevent errors in trade management.
You can already see prices off the DOM. Right click, uncheck AutoCenter. You can then scroll as high or low as you wish.

DOM intelligence will be preserved.

[jimmyparky]

I like to see the one click move as the drag and drag. At cruch time, I think one click is far more superior in accuracy and speed. Drag and drop just adds extra component that can go wrong.

[Shiva Swinger]

Perhaps you could clarify the benefits ofexecuting this strategy using drag and drop as opposed to the present way.

I place an order for 2 lots with 2 targets and a trailing stop

3 minutes later I place a second order for 2 lots with 2 targets but same trailing stop.

2 minutes later I place another order with 2 lots and trail stop.

AT this stage I have one stop with 6 lots and 6 different targets all unchanged from entry. The trailing stop will be moved as market advances.

With drag and drop am I right in thinking that the trailing stop of 6 lots will be in the queue at the original time of the first stop order of 2 lots.

What about the targets? If they are at different prices and placed at different times where will they be in the queue?

I agree that making options makes for complications. If all other execution platforms are using Drag and drop and Ninja is not then all ninja orders are at a disadvantage to the 15 or more execution platforms out there.

The only thing we cannot see is where we are in the queue. I like to be in a short queue and I never like to give up my place and move to the back of the queue. That's when we send our wives to get something while we keep our position in the queue.

If that is what is happening here then I will have to reconsider Drag and Drop?

[aspTrader]

A bit off the specific top but still having to do with the UI and Order Handling...

Would it be possible to have a Switch in Settings Manager that could be toggled off and on called something like "Display Queue Position".

If toggled On, this would display an estimated range of queue position values within which the Order is believed to exist.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

I have another idea...

Have not though through this completely but...

What if orders were highlighted as the active order to manipulate.

Example -

Target1 (highlighted)
Target2
Target3

A single click would only move Target1. If you wanted to move Target2 you would use the mouse scroll wheel to highlight it. Then it could be moved via single click. In other words, rolling the mouse wheel would change the highlighted order to the next one and so on.

Then we could have single click. This would come at the expense of using the scroll wheel to scroll the actual price ladder. Instead, I could add up/down arrows for price ladder scrolling or, having something like CTRL KEY + Scroll wheel.

Comments?

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Shiva Swinger wrote: Perhaps you could clarify the benefits ofexecuting this strategy using drag and drop as opposed to the present way.

I place an order for 2 lots with 2 targets and a trailing stop

3 minutes later I place a second order for 2 lots with 2 targets but same trailing stop.

2 minutes later I place another order with 2 lots and trail stop.

AT this stage I have one stop with 6 lots and 6 different targets all unchanged from entry. The trailing stop will be moved as market advances.

With drag and drop am I right in thinking that the trailing stop of 6 lots will be in the queue at the original time of the first stop order of 2 lots.

What about the targets? If they are at different prices and placed at different times where will they be in the queue?

I agree that making options makes for complications. If all other execution platforms are using Drag and drop and Ninja is not then all ninja orders are at a disadvantage to the 15 or more execution platforms out there.

The only thing we cannot see is where we are in the queue. I like to be in a short queue and I never like to give up my place and move to the back of the queue. That's when we send our wives to get something while we keep our position in the queue.

If that is what is happening here then I will have to reconsider Drag and Drop?

Irrelevant. You currently can't have six differently priced targets with NinjaTrader. You can have only 3 targets. Each target has a different mouse click assignment for modification. If you want six, you run out of assignable mouse click combinations and have to go for a drag and drop approach. NT is not at disadvantage to other platforms in this respect.

[Iza]

Hi Ray!!

I would not like like the drag and drop at all. This really can cause you to make many mistakes.!!

Thanks for hearing us!!

[gprizevoits]

So drag and drop will preserveour orderqueue position? I don't really understand how that is possiblesince you've changed prices. Can you explain exactly what that means Ray?

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

gprizevoits wrote: So drag and drop will preserveour orderqueue position? I don't really understand how that is possiblesince you've changed prices. Can you explain exactly what that means Ray?
Changing prices does not preserve order queue. Increasing an order size will since NT will add additional orders instead of modifying the original thus preserving order queu. Subsequently, price changes must now be applied to the group of orders representing a specific target. It is this scenario that can cause a problem. When modifying a group of orders, one has to account for a situation where not all ofthe orders modified are truly modified. It is possible that the modification get's rejected for a host of different reasons. If this happens, you will end up with some of the orders at the new price and some at the old price resulting in a splitting of the target order group. There then needs to be a way to be able to modify any/all of the orders that manage the position. This is where the limitations of the current NT approach kick in.

[Shiva Swinger]

It's simply a manual step and my experience with drag and drop is I guess when I move a file from one place to another and sometimes I make a mistake and put it in the wrong folder due to a slip of the hand or dropping too soon. What could happen in this ninja feature I'm not sure, but murphy's law is always there.?

Whatthe concerns seem to be, drag and drop opens the way for human error. Could you do a quick demo version for us to drive? Maybe it will be easy to live with.

[cody]

I'd like to see a quick 'drag & drop' demo before deciding as well. I think the 'fat fingers' stuff of dropping orders into prices, when the market is lively MAY cause problems, but honestly dont know. Sometimes, software has clever functions, but in the end , its transparent to the end-user.

I'd like to add two thoughts/questions as well.

1. I'd like to have an idea of how much trading some of the vocal posters actually do. That would give me a better idea of how much experience isput into some of these comments.

2. If NT was going to morph new functions/capabilities, I'd like to see order entry/cancellation speed up. In the end, with the current era of low commissions and $10 ticks, I simply go to the market if my place in queue is lost and I get jumpy. Then if my exit was wrong, Isimply re-enter with the market momentum and try again.

[bhong]

Ray, I like the last suggestion. I chose NT because of its one click option. I guess I'm a klutz. I also tend to be all-in or all-out so I personally don't need the multiple targets feature. In this time of choppy markets, there haven't been as many oppurtunities to scale out and I prefer to hit Scale out when I choose to partially exit. If you do go to mult targets with drag and drop,I do like your last suggestion of highlighting target one and still preserving the scroll wheel feature.
Seems like that might be a workable compromise.
Thanks for soliciting our input.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Bhong,

After sleeping on it, that is what I am thinking at this point. I personally can't stand the drag and drop approach myself. Here is what I am thinking -

- Ctrl Key + Scroll Wheel changes the highlighted active order if there is more than one visible on the screen.
- Scroll wheel changes visible price (like it does now)
- Single click modifies any order price
- Left click places limit orders
- Ctrl Key + Left click places stop market orders
- Shift Key + Left click places stop limit orders
- Any of the above combination + the Alt key places an additional order (for scaling in at multiple price levels)

Any comments on this thinking?

Ray

[Granville]

Ray, I really appreciate you taking time and effort through user feedbackto improve NT.

As for my input, I like NT for its user friendlienss combined with the ease of doing whatever I want. I run NT on a portable computer standing to the right of my charting screens, so to reach the keyboard I need to stretch (and finding the right keys on a portable is not so easy...). I use both lmt and stplmt orders, and I adjust targets from time to timeand I wouldn't like having to use the keys for this. Being able to run NT with mouse only, is thus a value in itself. For me, I don't think drag and drop would cause a problem, but some do, so I don't know what's the best solution for everybody.

Granville

[Merv]

Is there a way to have both the one-click move capability on the initial green colored targets that the program places upon initial entry? This single-click would still be in the "price" column" as it is now. The scale-in positions are added by clicking in either the BUY or SELL columns as now however each click would add an additional scale-in quantity and these order lines would all be cyan colored as now. The difference would be if you want to move a scale-in order then drag and drop this cyan colored scale-in order as you previously described in your proposal. You could make a right click on the scale-in quantity windowreduce the quantity by cancelling the most recent (furthest back in the que) scale-in order at that pice level. Say you wanted to scale in at the current level that an existing green target order existed. Just click in the BUY or SELL column and 1 scale-in quantity order would also be placed at that price level. You could even color the total order size at that level to cyanon the background colorto indicate that both a target and a scale-in order existed at that level. A drag and drop in the BUY or SELL column would move the scale-in order and a single click in the price column would move the target order. While those that use scale-in and out a lot will have to become familiar with differences, those that just use stops and targets willexperience no change in the interface. Adding orders to the existing targets would do as you described ,add additional orders to the que, preserving theinitialtarget place in the que Yet the cyan backgroud color on the total order quantity at that price level would indicate the presence of both target and scale-in orders. that would be moved as described above.

Is this possible? If so, I have a possible suggestion about what to do on initial entry orders.

Merv

[AK Trader]

Hi Ray,

Love the program. I have noticed over the last several weeks that my connection with PATS dies 2-3 times per day. Is there anything being done to make this connection more stable in V5? I have heard this is the case with other users as well. Reliability is critical...especially for automated trading.

Thanks much.

Frank

[rmmsmh]

Ray,

It would be nice to make these changes an option for those who would use them and keep the old system available to those whodon't make changes once the position is put on. I also think the drag and drop can be difficultand error prone. You would almost need a confirmation window for that which defeats the whole idea of one click entry. The fewer key strokesthe better.Also are these changes only for the DOMentry or would they also apply to the BEW as well. Thanks.



Bob

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Merv wrote: Is there a way to have both the one-click move capability on the initial green colored targets that the program places upon initial entry? This single-click would still be in the "price" column" as it is now. The scale-in positions are added by clicking in either the BUY or SELL columns as now however each click would add an additional scale-in quantity and these order lines would all be cyan colored as now. The difference would be if you want to move a scale-in order then drag and drop this cyan colored scale-in order as you previously described in your proposal. You could make a right click on the scale-in quantity windowreduce the quantity by cancelling the most recent (furthest back in the que) scale-in order at that pice level. Say you wanted to scale in at the current level that an existing green target order existed. Just click in the BUY or SELL column and 1 scale-in quantity order would also be placed at that price level. You could even color the total order size at that level to cyanon the background colorto indicate that both a target and a scale-in order existed at that level. A drag and drop in the BUY or SELL column would move the scale-in order and a single click in the price column would move the target order. While those that use scale-in and out a lot will have to become familiar with differences, those that just use stops and targets willexperience no change in the interface. Adding orders to the existing targets would do as you described ,add additional orders to the que, preserving theinitialtarget place in the que Yet the cyan backgroud color on the total order quantity at that price level would indicate the presence of both target and scale-in orders. that would be moved as described above.

Is this possible? If so, I have a possible suggestion about what to do on initial entry orders.

Merv



Hi Merv,

WhatI want to stay away from is multiple mouse clicking conventions for accomplishing similar tasks. Thus I am leaning towards the single click approach but have it accompanied by a highlighted order. So if you have a target1, there would be a yellow outline around it. This would indicate that you could modify it. If you wanted to modify target 2, you would need to highlight it by scrolling the mouse wheel.

Ray

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

AK Trader wrote: Hi Ray,

Love the program. I have noticed over the last several weeks that my connection with PATS dies 2-3 times per day. Is there anything being done to make this connection more stable in V5? I have heard this is the case with other users as well. Reliability is critical...especially for automated trading.

Thanks much.

Frank
NT disconnects when the Patsystems API tells it that it is disconnected. This is not an NT specific function. Variables that affect solid connection are -

a) Broker servers
b) Broker connectivity to the internet
c) Your internet connection

Ray

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

rmmsmh wrote: Ray,

It would be nice to make these changes an option for those who would use them and keep the old system available to those whodon't make changes once the position is put on. I also think the drag and drop can be difficultand error prone. You would almost need a confirmation window for that which defeats the whole idea of one click entry. The fewer key strokesthe better.Also are these changes only for the DOMentry or would they also apply to the BEW as well. Thanks.



Bob

Order handling applies to NT internally, User Interface just the DOM although the BEW is getting a complete overhaul and will likely be a horizontal window instead of a vertical one.

Ray

[gdargento]

Ray,

I've been using the program for a few months now and really like it. Thanks.

A feature I'd really love to see is a "Limit-on-Close" and a "Market-on-Close" option. This should of course be configurable for time frame (i.e. 1 min bars; 3 min bars...).

Keep upthe good work!



Gary Dargento

[aspTrader]

Ray,

A feature that would be EXTREMELY useful for CTAs doing some size and a need for the entire size to be "in" once the 1st contract is hit is this...

A "Chase If Partial Fill" trigger. Not "Chase If Touched".

If one of our customers is "in" then ALL of them need to be "in". So, a "Chase If Partial Fill" Checkbox would be extremely useful. All the rest of the Chase logic would be the same. It's just that the "event trigger" initiating the Chase logic sequence would be different.

[Lupus]

Oh please God, do not let there be keys involved!! In my opinion, the greatest feature of NT is that it is mouse-driven! Please, please, please do not let there be keys involved.

I'd rather not have to do two things in order to move targets/stops, but if I HAD to change, I'd rather accomplish it all with just the mouse.If I absolutely HAD to change from a single click to move my targets and stops, I'd rather click on a target/stop to highlight it, then click on the place I want to move it to (not drag and drop). That way I could at least pre-highlight the target/stop the action was closest to, then I would only have to do the one remaining click to move it if I needed to. Not optimum, but the least extra work/confusion I can think of in a fast market. But only if I HAD to change.

Also, using the scroll wheel to move the ladder is a good, fast feature, especially in a fast moving market. When things are rocking, there isn't time to take focus off the price ladder to find and focus on a little box to click, then re-focus on the ladder.

thanks

[ckapilla]

Ray,

I like the gist of these ideas a lot, but I think it is a tad too complicated. I think it would be better using a single key only (preferably Ctrl because it is on the corner of the keyboard and you can 'feel' that you are on the right one without looking). Once you get into "ctrl does this, and shift does that and Alt does this", then mistakes are guaranteed to happen. I think keeping the existing convention of right click and middle click for stop orders would be better.

I really like the ctrl-wheel approach to move a price, and as I wrote before, I like ctrl-click to add to an order (ctrl-left, ctrl-right and ctrl-middle).

This would have the advantage of requiring less 'user re-education' for existing users, the program would continue to work as is for those who did not want to add orders.

[plunger]

The loss of position in the fill queu is a fundamental problem with NinjaTrader at the present time. Your plan to solve that problem is commendable. Without getting good fills one cannot be an effective daytrader. With the current version any change to an order puts you at the back of the line will much less likelyhood of getting a favorable fill or at times any fill. I understand what you are trying to do and if you can achieve it you will greatly improve the NT platform. I think most people will quickly get used to it and love it because their profitablily has to go up.

[Rob Richardson]

I just started reading the support forum and I was wondering what is the status of the "Drag and Drop" Versus "Keying changes" discussion? Is there a decision and when might we see a sample?

If it's not too late, I was wondering if "Nesting"might be an option.

I could see having multiple buy and sell columns on the sides of the trading ladder. Each column would have 1 to 3 orders (just like today) each managed with the mouse buttons just like today.

When a column has no orders in it ... the column disappears. Only one sell and one buy column can be manipulated at a time. You would click the top of column to select it for manipulation. All other columns can be "minimized" andun-highlitedas visual clues.

Anew orderis entered by opening a column (if needed) and placing theorder. Whenthe order is filled; stops and targetseither fillpartial columns or (under config rules) create a new columnsto match that entry.

Advantages:

1) It preserves all the mousing reflexesin our muscle memory... i.e. its backward compatible to what we all know.

2) It allows us to manage multiple orders at the same price without ruining our position in the queue... Each column can have orders at the same price.

3) Its a little less error prone than drag and drop.

4) No more keys than we already have.

5) I think it can make restarting aDOM in the middle of a trade easier.All open orders for an instrument could be picked up in one DOM and displayed without guessing whichDOM the order belongs to. (We may only need one liveDOM per instrument with this)

6) It saves screen space compared to having multiple DOMs open.

Disadvantages

1) Potential for some extra mouse clicks.

2) Programming complexity?

3) Some extra screen space.

Just a thought



Rob Richardson

[goWms]

I like your very flexible, easy to learn approach. ButtonTrader.com hasimplemented a variation of this approach, opening the opportunity to learn from them and do it even better and more simply with NinjaTrader