NT taking up all CPU and slow

[saroj]

For the past week, NT has been at nearly 100% CPU... it is unusable for live trading. my computer meets the requirements.. How can I get help to understand what to eliminate or change so that it is sufficiently responsive?

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Hello saroj,

Thank you for your post.

I have included a link below that goes over performance tips to help with overall performance of NinjaTrader.

http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/helpguide.html?PerformanceTips1

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[saroj]

Thanks Christopher... I think part of the problem is that I have the recording function turned on and I have one chart each of 9 instruments (5 to 60 minute charts) open so that I can monitor a range of markets... U.S., European, Commodity, Treasury.. since you have no way to specify which instrument(s) I want to record, it is recording all of them apparently... I really only need/want 3 of them recorded. These charts are very simple.. price and volume...

My trading chart is more complex with long range Bollinger Bands .. I use 3 of these as range bars..

Here are my questions:
1.can I pay for a 'live' license for my trading computer, but continue to use a demo license for a second data collection computer to separate these loads?
2. does this setup sound like it would alleviate the problem?

Thanks, Saroj

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Hello saroj,

1. Yes, you may use your live license key on your trading PC and the Free @SIM license key on another PC to record data.

2. Yes, the more windows you can closed will help with the processing of your PC.

If you want to move your Market Replay files to your other PC you can do this by creating a Backup and Restore from one PC to another.

Backup:
http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/CreatingABackupArchive.html

Restore:
http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/RestoringABackupArchive.html



Also Market Replay will record data for all instruments within you Market Analyzer window as well. This way you would not need a seperate chart open for each instrument if this helps.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[saroj]

I have nothing running on this computer except NT

First I closed all but the 3 trading charts... no difference, NT still at 98% CPU usage

Then I took off all but the volume indicator on those 3 charts... now down to 40%... still unacceptable.

... Do I have to restart NT to get it to "release" memory or ??

Tell me how increasing RAM will help... would it reduce paging out memory or is that a red herring? Will NT 7 have performance improvements in it? Will it handle multi-threading?

Thanks for your help.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

First some of your questions -

- RAM can help but only if NinjaTrader is consuming less than 1.5 GB of RAM
- NT 6.5 is alread multi-threaded --> This is not relevant here

I would like to analyze your workspace to see what the root of the issue is. Can you restore your settings so that it represens the scenario where you were getting 100% CPU usage.

Then from within NinjaTrader select > Help > Mail To Support and include "For Ray" in subject and ensure you place a check next to "Workspaces".

Thanks in advance.

[Mike_32]

I had this problem in another thread to the extreme. Anyway had to reinstall lost all data again. It seems to do it after a period of time running it after a new install. The new install I did now is starting to lag a bit on the charts after a week as usual. I would assume in 3 weeks from now it will become unusable again. It seems the larger the database becomes, the more things it has to read from it and the more lag you get.

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Mike_32, sorry for the issues - if you like I can take a look at your trace and log files and advise further, for this please use the Help > Mail to Support feature and put Attn Bertrand in the subject (also check to include trace and logs).

NinjaTrader 7 will offer several performance improvements. For a feature overview and current development status updates please check this regularly - http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/NT7/NinjaTrader7.html

[saroj]

found so far:

1. "some" DOM settings reset... although the colors are still as I had set them
2. Instrument manager settings wiped out
3. Default tempate name

what else?

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Unfortunately this is expected, as the database stores your customizations, historical data and ATM strategy templates.

For a convenient backup, you can use the inbuild backup and restore feature - http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/Overview50.html

[saroj]

Mike_32, sorry for the issues - if you like I can take a look at your trace and log files and advise further, for this please use the Help > Mail to Support feature and put Attn Bertrand in the subject (also check to include trace and logs).

NinjaTrader 7 will offer several performance improvements. For a feature overview and current development status updates please check this regularly - http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/NT7/NinjaTrader7.html
Sure... but you should inform your users when giving the suggestion... "to be expected" is obvious to YOU, not obvious to ME. just let folks know what to expect.

[JS999]

I have nothing running on this computer except NT

First I closed all but the 3 trading charts... no difference, NT still at 98% CPU usage

Then I took off all but the volume indicator on those 3 charts... now down to 40%... still unacceptable.

... Do I have to restart NT to get it to "release" memory or ??

Tell me how increasing RAM will help... would it reduce paging out memory or is that a red herring? Will NT 7 have performance improvements in it? Will it handle multi-threading?

Thanks for your help.

If you want to get the advantages of multiple threads running across many charts in NT 6.5, you can set up virtual machines and run separate copies of NT in each one. You have to have enough RAM for this, and you have to get your broker to authorize you for multiple simultaneous connections. I would also strongly suggest NOT leaving a time and sales windows open on your trading copy of NT where you enter your orders, and not having any range or volume charts open on that copy either, as they are resource intensive. Maybe one or two minute charts open, just for executing trades. Currently I am running 3 copies of NT 6.5 simultaneously, as that is the only way I can get any decent performance with all the charts that I need to see... I also have a second PC running a whole bunch of monitoring charts, so I guess that makes 4 copies running at once. You obviously need a dual-core CPU to take advantage of two copies, or a quad-core to take advantage of 3 or more.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

For the past week, NT has been at nearly 100% CPU... it is unusable for live trading. my computer meets the requirements.. How can I get help to understand what to eliminate or change so that it is sufficiently responsive?


Hello saroj,

Thank you for your post.

Bertrand is offline for the evening but will repond to your post in the morning.

Thank you for your patience.

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Saroj, thanks again for sending those files in to us for review and great we could find a good solution for you. Good trading!

[laredo]

IS there a link or post that give me the 1 2 3s of downlaoding these ninascript apps.

Nothing I do results in the feature being displayed on nt charts.

I dotn know e.g.If I am do unzip the program ,or when I open it say from my documents,is NT suppose to find it open and attach it.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

IS there a link or post that give me the 1 2 3s of downlaoding these ninascript apps.

Nothing I do results in the feature being displayed on nt charts.

I dotn know e.g.If I am do unzip the program ,or when I open it say from my documents,is NT suppose to find it open and attach it.


Hello laredo,

Thank you for your post.

You may import NinjaScript indicators or applications by going to the Control Center-->File-->Utilities-->Import NinjaScript-->Locate the downloaded file-->Click Open

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[laredo]

When I download the file ,its doesnt tell me where in the computer it is located,and a search doesnt locate it either.So how do I open it?

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

When I download the file ,its doesnt tell me where in the computer it is located,and a search doesnt locate it either.So how do I open it?


Hello laredo,

When downloading an indicator please choose Save-->and witin the Save window you will have the option to pick where the file will be saved.

I have provided a screen shot below to show the area where the saved location maybe changed.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[laredo]

When I open the file having placed it in documents(highlight the file and then OPEN) I get a winodw telling me that it has downloaded all ninjatrader archives,and the program does not appear under Indicators on my ninjatrader platform.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

When I open the file having placed it in documents(highlight the file and then OPEN) I get a winodw telling me that it has downloaded all ninjatrader archives,and the program does not appear under Indicators on my ninjatrader platform.


Is the file you are attempting to install a NinjaScript indicator or a NinjaScript strategy?

[laredo]

Its a Calculate Value Area ,and a MPValue ,indicator(s) from this board.

[laredo]

ryker (http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/member.php?u=2591)
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Guernsey (UK)
Posts: 144


http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/images/icons/icon1.gif
Hello,
Here is the version with a different name (and a few other changes aswell).
Attached Files http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/images/attach/zip.gif MPValues.zip (http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1708&d=1202159208) (4.5 KB, 683 views)

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Its a Calculate Value Area ,and a MPValue ,indicator(s) from this board.


After importing the indicators did you receive a message stating "NinjaTrader successfully imported all indicators/strategies contained in the NinjaScript Archive File."

I have tested these indicators on my end and was able to apply them within my chart.

[laredo]

That is the message I received.Am I suppose to find the indicators under Indicators or do I have to refresh something.

[laredo]

The calculate value area has appeared.

[laredo]

OK looks good.

Do both indicator give u the exact same lines ,same colors and lines please,sir?

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

OK looks good.

Do both indicator give u the exact same lines ,same colors and lines please,sir?


No, each indicator will plot their own lines or dots on the chart. You may need to compress your Y-Axis to see both indicators.

To compress and expand the prices on the Y-Axis please follow the steps below.

Move your mouse to the Y-Axis
Hold down the left mouse button
While holding down the left mouse button move the mouse down to compress the pricing
While holding down the left mouse button move the mouse up to expand the pricingI have included a link below to our Help Guide that includes a great video on navigating charts

http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/NavigatingAChart.html


Within the Parameters section of the indicators you may change the color, type of line etc.

To change the parameters please right click within your chart-->Indicators-->Select the indicator you have applied-->Under Plots click on the + next to the one you would like to change-->make changes to the parameter-->Click Apply.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[laredo]

how do I rename my database file and lift teh drag on the platform?

ty

[saroj]

Saroj, thanks again for sending those files in to us for review and great we could find a good solution for you. Good trading!
Back to square one.. I replaced my memory and now have 4GB; same issues.. I'm backing up NT now; then will rename mdb again (I hope you plan to stop using Access in NT 7); I'll send my files to you. Performance even with Market Replay is unusable.

[laredo]

be sure your firewall is configured properly

that drags nt

[saroj]

I've turned off firewalls and virus protection to test... wanted to have the cleanest environment possible... so that's not it.. but thanks for the suggestion.. for when I turn firewall back on... do you have a link for the correct settings?

[laredo]

I have a request in with my security software co. to show me that.

I had the "reload historical data" whited out on my platform and ninjasupport said that was firewall issues.Period.

I did all the things on teh check list.
Ive gone to extreme measures.I erased everything somehow and then did a restore back up.I think I reset db.Reset instruments,then restored back up.
Removed all firewall and then the thing ran like a bullet.

So it can be done.Other wise you are stuck with something that is not much good to you.

I wish I could tell in in detail what I did but I dont recall it and may not be able to repeat it.

[saroj]

Why do you install these in "My Documents"? Is there a reason that they can't be elsewhere? I have my files in that folder indexed. Possibly the reason that I'm having performance problems. Frankly I've never had an application do that and I keep them separate for a reason... i.e. I had assumed anything there was under "my" control.

Can I put them somewhere else? If so, how do I make that change?

Thanks,
Saroj

[saroj]

I don't have a firewall running on the computer where NT is running, but I plan to set that up again once we figure out the NT performance issues. Please tell me what firewall settings are required to avoid interfering with data flow into NT.

Thanks,
Saroj

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Why do you install these in "My Documents"? Is there a reason that they can't be elsewhere? I have my files in that folder indexed. Possibly the reason that I'm having performance problems. Frankly I've never had an application do that and I keep them separate for a reason... i.e. I had assumed anything there was under "my" control.

Can I put them somewhere else? If so, how do I make that change?

Thanks,
Saroj

Hello Saroj,

Yes, NinjaTrader must be installed in My Documents and cannot be installed in a different folder.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

I don't have a firewall running on the computer where NT is running, but I plan to set that up again once we figure out the NT performance issues. Please tell me what firewall settings are required to avoid interfering with data flow into NT.

Thanks,
Saroj

Hello Saroj,

Once you have installed your Firewall on your PC within your settings you will need to allow NinjaTrader to have access. This setting varies from software to software and can be found within the software manual.

[saroj]

Is it gettng confused because in my environment "My Documents" (for me as logged-in user) is on the D: drive?

Could it be getting confused because there is also a "My Documents" folder on the C: drive (put there by the OS I assume).

Do you plan to continue this odd forced user files folder usage in NT 7?

[saroj]

so there is not a specific port number?

[saroj]

... in spite of doing everything I know how other than to replace my trading computer with a high-end gaming quad core, 8 GB RAM machine or a CRAY...

See attached image... but here is the situation:
Here's the totality of what I have running in NT; it has been pegging 99% for 45 minutes; when it started I also had a strategy running; outside of NT I had: 4 MS Word windows open and 1 Excel; also Avast virus protection; Jing.exe. I closed down the strategy and then each of the non-NT apps with no result until just now (10:31). Now NT is running between 10 and 40% on average.

There is considerable paging occurring which baffles me given that I have 4GB of RAM.

This computer is a Pentium 4 @ 3.2 GHrz; XP Pro; 4GB RAM; no firewall operational
NT executables are installed in Program Files on C: (NTFS) which has 48GB free space and was defrag'd twice over the weekend; the NT "user" files are in My Documents on D: (NTFS) which has 16GB free space and was defrag'd twice over the weekend as well. I also renamed the MDB file so that it would start with a fresh one this morning. I have only one workspace in addition to "Default"; my charts are set to 3 days.

I ran ccleaner and System Mechanic numerous times yesterday to clean up the registries and handle other tasks that might be causing performance problems.

FOLLOW UP:
After this picture was taken, I removed "Allow Indexing Service" , rebooted and NT is still pegged at 90% and above although sometimes it drops down to single digits. It definitely increases substantially at times of high data such as just now as CL pit closed. I turned off virus protection and the only other app is snagit.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Is it gettng confused because in my environment "My Documents" (for me as logged-in user) is on the D: drive?

Could it be getting confused because there is also a "My Documents" folder on the C: drive (put there by the OS I assume).

Do you plan to continue this odd forced user files folder usage in NT 7?

Hello Saroj,

As long as you have NinjaTrader installed on your C: there will not be an issue as it will install all files into the C: My Documents folder.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

so there is not a specific port number?


Hi Saroj,

No there are not specific port numbers used. NinjaTrader submitts HTTP requests to the following addresses.

www.ninjatrader.com (http://www.ninjatrader.com)
www.ninjatrader-support.com (http://www.ninjatrader-support.com)
www.ninjatrader-support2.com (http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com)

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

... in spite of doing everything I know how other than to replace my trading computer with a high-end gaming quad core, 8 GB RAM machine or a CRAY...

See attached image... but here is the situation:
Here's the totality of what I have running in NT; it has been pegging 99% for 45 minutes; when it started I also had a strategy running; outside of NT I had: 4 MS Word windows open and 1 Excel; also Avast virus protection; Jing.exe. I closed down the strategy and then each of the non-NT apps with no result until just now (10:31). Now NT is running between 10 and 40% on average.

There is considerable paging occurring which baffles me given that I have 4GB of RAM.

This computer is a Pentium 4 @ 3.2 GHrz; XP Pro; 4GB RAM; no firewall operational
NT executables are installed in Program Files on C: (NTFS) which has 48GB free space and was defrag'd twice over the weekend; the NT "user" files are in My Documents on D: (NTFS) which has 16GB free space and was defrag'd twice over the weekend as well. I also renamed the MDB file so that it would start with a fresh one this morning. I have only one workspace in addition to "Default"; my charts are set to 3 days.

I ran ccleaner and System Mechanic numerous times yesterday to clean up the registries and handle other tasks that might be causing performance problems.

FOLLOW UP:
After this picture was taken, I removed "Allow Indexing Service" , rebooted and NT is still pegged at 90% and above although sometimes it drops down to single digits. It definitely increases substantially at times of high data such as just now as CL pit closed. I turned off virus protection and the only other app is snagit.

Saroj,

I will need to speak with our development team on the issue you are experiencing. I will follow up with you as soon as I gather additional information.

Thank you for your patience.

[saroj]

Hello Saroj,

As long as you have NinjaTrader installed on your C: there will not be an issue as it will install all files into the C: My Documents folder.

meanwhile I can't use NT... AS I SAID... NT IS PUTTING ALL THE USER FILES AND DATABASE ON MY D: DRIVE IN "MY DOCUMENTS" IN A FOLDER NAMED NINJATRADER 6.5... ALTHOUGH THIS MORNING I ALSO HAD A "MY DOCUMENTS" FOLDER, I REDIRECTED IT TO D: AND IT IS NO LONGER THERE...

SO I GUESS YOU ARE WRONG OR SOMEHOW NT HAS SECRET ACCESS TO A SECRET FOLDER THAT IS INVISIBLE ON THE C: DRIVE...

WOULD YOU PLEASE ESCALATE THIS PROBLEM TO SOMEONE WHO CAN HELP!

Saroj
757 871-6697

[laredo]

saroj alot of people obviously are running nt successfully.
and on low end machines which you are probably aware of.so i would delete that idea about high end pc(s)

i understand you do have to delete historical data from old contracts you have been running even if they are not on your default contract list of things you chart..

uncheck "store bar data", mind re-establishing when i "restore back up"

reduce workspaces open to the ones you are actively interested in

get a notepad and list thing thing you have done so that u can narrow it down

pay attention to what nt support says

[saroj]

saroj alot of people obviously are running nt successfully.
and on low end machines which you are probably aware of.so i would delete that idea about high end pc(s)

i understand you do have to delete historical data from old contracts you have been running even if they are not on your default contract list of things you chart..

uncheck "store bar data", mind re-establishing when i "restore back up"

reduce workspaces open to the ones you are actively interested in

get a notepad and list thing thing you have done so that u can narrow it down

pay attention to what nt support says
You wrote:
<<saroj alot of people obviously are running nt successfully.
and on low end machines which you are probably aware of.so i would delete that idea about high end pc(s)>>
-> ME: precisely why I need tech support... as I wrote, I've done EVERYTHING I know to do to fix the problem to no avail.

<<i understand you do have to delete historical data from old contracts you have been running even if they are not on your default contract list of things you chart..>>
-> ME: I don't understand what this means nor how I would go about doing this.

<<uncheck "store bar data", mind re-establishing when i "restore back up">>
-> ME: do you mean "uncheck 'store bar data' WHEN re-establishing when I 'restore back up'? I haven't done a restore... so not impacting problem... but I'll keep that in mind... what is the impact?

<<reduce workspaces open to the ones you are actively interested in >>
-> ME: as I wrote, that is exactly what I have done... there is DEFAULT which I have no control over and the ONE I am using.

<<get a notepad and list thing thing you have done so that u can narrow it down>>
-> ME: I wrote exactly what I have done.. in the text and on the image.

<<pay attention to what nt support says>>
-> HUH? all they have said is that they see nothing wrong... I said I would increase RAM... I was directed to the "how to improve performance" page... AND applied all relevant suggestions.

[laredo]

good luck!

[saroj]

Thanks!! Thanks!! Thanks!!

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

saroj, a few points coming to mind cross reading the developments of your issue in this thread -

1. Please go to File > Workspaces and make sure only one open workspace is listed, if not please close all other ones down

2. In this workspace, open all charts and check the Format Data Series lookback range setting, the last time we had one chart with a very lookback causing the delays

3. Also check the CalculateOnBarClose setting of ALL applied indicators to ALL charts and set the unneeded ones to 'true' to not calculate all studies on each incoming live tick.

4. If you use any custom coded studies, it may be worth to consult a NinjaScript consultant to optimize the coding for the best performance possible, for example reducing the used DataSeries objects in your custom indicators -

http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/partners_onlinetrading_NinjaScript.htm

[saroj]

Bertrand,

I wrote a very lengthy, very timeconsuming attempt to communicate the continuation of the severe performance issues with NinjaTrader that I am experiencing.

I have spent HOURS trying to bring my computer up to par and clear up any "hidden" problems that might be contributing to the problem.

There is no NT tech support to call to explain in a conversation. Written communication is IT unless you choose to call me.

As far as I know you know have remote assistance wherein one of your experts can look at my computer WHILE it is having problems with NinjaTrader to see where the bottleneck is

So...my responses to your suggestions:

re: #1 - As I WROTE: I am only using ONE Workspace aside from Default (which I tried to delete and couldn't); now I ONLY use Default.

re: #2 - AS I WROTE: NO chart goes back more than THREE days... I changed the default under options so one wouldn't sneak in if I forget to change the defaul as happened before.

re: #3 - OF COURSE! Very few indicators are set to update every tick. Nearly all are COBC.

re: #4 - Along with all the work I've done on my computer... adding 3 GB RAM (to get to 4GB RAM), spending hours and hours cleaning up the registries, hard drives, backround processes, turning off virus protection, firewall, etc. etc. I ALSO COMPLETELY REMOVED NINJATRADER AND ALL REFERENCES TO IT IN THE REGISTRIES, DELETED THE THREE FOLDERS YOU USE... WIPED OUT NINJA TRADER COMPLETELY!... AND REINSTALLED IT FROM SCRATCH... NEW FOLDERS EVEN...

I THEN CREATED A NEW CHART/TEMPLATE WITH NO, I REPEAT, **** NO *** CUSTOM INDICATORS... ONLY NATIVE NT INDICATORS...

I AM EXPERIENCING THE SAME PERFORMANCE ISSUES WITH ONLY 2 SYMBOLS AND 3 CHARTS!!

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT PREVIOUSLY I RAN NINJA TRADER ON A 2ND COMPUTER (2GB, TONS OF HD SPACE) WITH *** NO *** LIVE DATA... ONLY *** MARKET REPLAY DATA *** AND IT **ALSO** HAD PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS WITH NOTHING ELSE RUNNING SIMULTANEOUSLY OTHER THAN I.E.

BERTRAND, I FEEL I HAVE TO 'YELL' IN ORDER TO BE HEARD... BECAUSE I WROTE OUT.. GAVE YOU PICTURES... DID EVERYTHING I COULD DO MYSELF TO INCREASE PERFORMANCE... AND YOU RESPONDED WITH THE STANDARD STUFF THAT IS IN YOUR "HOW TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE" PAGE... WHICH, IF YOU HAD READ MY POSTS, YOU WOULD REALIZE I HAD ALREADY READ AND APPLIED THOSE TIPS...

******* NOW IT IS TIME FOR NINJA TRADER TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE *****

BY THE WAY, I PREVIOUSLY USED ENSIGN, A SUPERB CHARTING APPLICATION, AND HAD NO, ZERO, PROBLEMS WITH THE SAME CHARTS... LOTS OF CUSTOM INDICATORS... MANY CHARTS AND SYMBOLS OPEN AT ONCE... IT HAD NO PROBLEMS HANDLING IT AT ALL... I REPEAT.. IN CASE YOU MISSED IT...

*** NO PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS WITH ENSIGN ***

THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I'VE TRIED NINJA TRADER... I PREVIOUSLY STOPPED USING IT ** TWICE ** DUE TO THE MAJOR QA (WHY IS NT CRASHING AGAIN) AND DESIGN PROBLEMS (LIKE USING MS ACCESS AS YOUR DATABASE)...


saroj, a few points coming to mind cross reading the developments of your issue in this thread - I THINK YOU MISSED A LOT OF WHAT I WROTE

1. Please go to File > Workspaces and make sure only one open workspace is listed, if not please close all other ones down... I ONLY HAVE DEFAULT... NO CUSTOM WORKSPACES

2. In this workspace, open all charts and check the Format Data Series lookback range setting, the last time we had one chart with a very lookback causing the delays. NO MORE THAN THREE DAYS

3. Also check the CalculateOnBarClose setting of ALL applied indicators to ALL charts and set the unneeded ones to 'true' to not calculate all studies on each incoming live tick. ALL EXCEPT WHERE I REALLY NEED TO SEE THE INDICATOR AS THE BAR DEVELOPS

4. If you use any custom coded studies, it may be worth to consult a NinjaScript consultant to optimize the coding for the best performance possible, for example reducing the used DataSeries objects in your custom indicators - CURRENTLY USING ONLY NINJATRADER NATIVE INDICATORS

http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/partners_onlinetrading_NinjaScript.htm

[salakazam]

Saroj I have to agree with you, I'm owner of NT license and had the same problems as you related.

Not 100% of CPU but up 60% and frozen data, I tried everything NT support said to me (BTW almost same things said to you).

To me the problem only solve when I change data provider, with ZF I can't work, and nobody can tell me why. I'm now with TT, but have other problems, like differences in data stamp on bars and indicator after reload...

You can see and example in my youtube videos, the problem happens with a new re-installation of NT, only one chart and DOM, no indicators and all suggest by NT support:

NinjaTrader & ZenFire problem 1.2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZn3MzuBkHM)

NinjaTrader & ZenFire problem 2.2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvUotBdXO6U)

Sorry for my english. Regards.

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

salakazam, can you please contact us using the Help > Mail to Support feature and then check to include your 'trace and log files'? Then we can review those and advise, thank you!

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

Saroj I have to agree with you, I'm owner of NT license and had the same problems as you related.

Not 100% of CPU but up 60% and frozen data, I tried everything NT support said to me (BTW almost same things said to you).

To me the problem only solve when I change data provider, with ZF I can't work, and nobody can tell me why. I'm now with TT, but have other problems, like differences in data stamp on bars and indicator after reload...

You can see and example in my youtube videos, the problem happens with a new re-installation of NT, only one chart and DOM, no indicators and all suggest by NT support:

NinjaTrader & ZenFire problem 1.2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZn3MzuBkHM)

NinjaTrader & ZenFire problem 2.2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvUotBdXO6U)

Sorry for my english. Regards.

I see a couple of issues on your videos which potentially might impact NT performance
a) as you click some funny circles are visible which make me believe that you do have some additional software installed producing those visuals
b) on the window captions I see an additional icon which is not standard. This again suggest that there might be an additional "desktop software" installed which might impact NT's performance.

-> please uninstall all non standard software components which might interfere with windows desktop management or windows event handling to eliminate potential sources of trouble. Alternatively you could try to install NT on a clean "standard" machine (provided you would have one available)

[salakazam]

salakazam, can you please contact us using the Help > Mail to Support feature and then check to include your 'trace and log files'? Then we can review those and advise, thank you!

I already did, I was mailing mi request {190978} with Mike Del Ponte and Jason Hilling.

Do you want to see all the mailing with support I have?

Really, I'm only giving my support to Saroj, cause I know what he's going trough.

[salakazam]

a) as you click some funny circles are visible which make me believe that you do have some additional software installed producing those visuals

Well, this is Camtasia, of course to record video I need some soft like this, you know.

Don't believe me if you want, but if you are planning to stay vacations in Spain I invite you to check live at my place, because it happens exactly the same without record video. BTW you will be guest to a good paella with views over Mediterranean sea :D


b) on the window captions I see an additional icon which is not standard. This again suggest that there might be an additional "desktop software" installed which might impact NT's performance.

Sorry, but I don't know what are you talking about. In my videos I don't see any additional icon, which window caption are you talking about?

Regards.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

Thanks for clarification.

I was referring to the additional icon on the control center caption and the icon left of the link button on the chart form. What software would you have installed which would create those icons?

[JS999]

Bertrand,

I wrote a very lengthy, very timeconsuming attempt to communicate the continuation of the severe performance issues with NinjaTrader that I am experiencing.

I have spent HOURS trying to bring my computer up to par and clear up any "hidden" problems that might be contributing to the problem.

There is no NT tech support to call to explain in a conversation. Written communication is IT unless you choose to call me.

As far as I know you know have remote assistance wherein one of your experts can look at my computer WHILE it is having problems with NinjaTrader to see where the bottleneck is

So...my responses to your suggestions:

re: #1 - As I WROTE: I am only using ONE Workspace aside from Default (which I tried to delete and couldn't); now I ONLY use Default.

re: #2 - AS I WROTE: NO chart goes back more than THREE days... I changed the default under options so one wouldn't sneak in if I forget to change the defaul as happened before.

re: #3 - OF COURSE! Very few indicators are set to update every tick. Nearly all are COBC.

re: #4 - Along with all the work I've done on my computer... adding 3 GB RAM (to get to 4GB RAM), spending hours and hours cleaning up the registries, hard drives, backround processes, turning off virus protection, firewall, etc. etc. I ALSO COMPLETELY REMOVED NINJATRADER AND ALL REFERENCES TO IT IN THE REGISTRIES, DELETED THE THREE FOLDERS YOU USE... WIPED OUT NINJA TRADER COMPLETELY!... AND REINSTALLED IT FROM SCRATCH... NEW FOLDERS EVEN...

I THEN CREATED A NEW CHART/TEMPLATE WITH NO, I REPEAT, **** NO *** CUSTOM INDICATORS... ONLY NATIVE NT INDICATORS...

I AM EXPERIENCING THE SAME PERFORMANCE ISSUES WITH ONLY 2 SYMBOLS AND 3 CHARTS!!

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT PREVIOUSLY I RAN NINJA TRADER ON A 2ND COMPUTER (2GB, TONS OF HD SPACE) WITH *** NO *** LIVE DATA... ONLY *** MARKET REPLAY DATA *** AND IT **ALSO** HAD PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS WITH NOTHING ELSE RUNNING SIMULTANEOUSLY OTHER THAN I.E.

BERTRAND, I FEEL I HAVE TO 'YELL' IN ORDER TO BE HEARD... BECAUSE I WROTE OUT.. GAVE YOU PICTURES... DID EVERYTHING I COULD DO MYSELF TO INCREASE PERFORMANCE... AND YOU RESPONDED WITH THE STANDARD STUFF THAT IS IN YOUR "HOW TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE" PAGE... WHICH, IF YOU HAD READ MY POSTS, YOU WOULD REALIZE I HAD ALREADY READ AND APPLIED THOSE TIPS...

******* NOW IT IS TIME FOR NINJA TRADER TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE *****

BY THE WAY, I PREVIOUSLY USED ENSIGN, A SUPERB CHARTING APPLICATION, AND HAD NO, ZERO, PROBLEMS WITH THE SAME CHARTS... LOTS OF CUSTOM INDICATORS... MANY CHARTS AND SYMBOLS OPEN AT ONCE... IT HAD NO PROBLEMS HANDLING IT AT ALL... I REPEAT.. IN CASE YOU MISSED IT...

*** NO PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS WITH ENSIGN ***

THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I'VE TRIED NINJA TRADER... I PREVIOUSLY STOPPED USING IT ** TWICE ** DUE TO THE MAJOR QA (WHY IS NT CRASHING AGAIN) AND DESIGN PROBLEMS (LIKE USING MS ACCESS AS YOUR DATABASE)...

Ha ha ha... this sounds exactly like what I have been feeling like about NT 6.5. Let me save you some trouble - there isn't much you're going to be able to do about performance in this program, and there isn't much tech support can do to help you either. The problem is that some very, very bad design decisions were made in this piece of software a few years ago, and it's obvious that very little performance testing and optimization was done when it was first written.

You can apply all the tweaks you want, but in the end it's still poorly written and you can't change the basic code - tweaks will only get you so far. On my PC, I have two charts up: a 2 minute and 10 second. I have removed just about all indicators except for a few moving averages and a set of bollinger bands, plus volume. Each look-back period is set to only a few hundred bars, every indicator is set to calculateOnBarClose=true, and one chart is even set to update every .3 seconds instead of every tick. I have applied every known tweak possible. I have turned off my firewall and anti-virus software, and I am running this on a brand-new XP installation with maximum RAM installed on a Core i7 920. This is about as good as you can get, and yet some things still lag a bit during heavy volume times. The program is completely unusable with Range charts - try opening up a fresh copy of NT on a fresh installation, tweak it all you want, remove all indicators, and have only one Range chart open on the most powerful PC you can buy - it will still lag during heavy volume periods. It's obvious that they did no performance testing on this chart type at all, probably because most people don't use it.

The bottom line is that you are not going to be able to fix something that is fundamentally broken. Take a look at the performance increases they are getting with the NT 7 software - you don't get that kind of speed and memory usage improvement unless the original piece of software was badly designed in the first place. I have a feeling that when they wrote NT they had swing traders in mind, and weren't really thinking much about second-to-second scalpers in the market... if they had been, we wouldn't have the software that we have now because they would have made sure to spend a lot of time on performance optimizations. After years of people screaming at them about it, it's obvious that they now get it and are making NT 7 a lot more efficient... but you still have a couple of months before you can use the beta. In the meantime, you can try going here:

www.virtualbox.com (http://www.virtualbox.com)

It's free software for setting up virtual PCs on your machine. Set up an additional machine and run a second copy of NT inside of it (you have to do that since only one copy of NT 6.5 can run on a machine at a time). Then put all of your calculation-intensive charts in there, and leave only a single chart open on your main copy of NT, for trading. Talk to your broker to give you a second simultaneous connection.

I have spent months trying to make this software work, and I can assure you that there is little you are going to be able to do to change its basic nature... tech support isn't going to be able to help you much, so don't expect them to work miracles. Just some advice....

[salakazam]

I was referring to the additional icon on the control center caption and the icon left of the link button on the chart form. What software would you have installed which would create those icons?

Sorry, I see. Are yo talking about this (yellow mark inside):

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/salakazam/nvidiaicon.jpg

This is Nvidia icon to change window between monitors. This is an addon of the nView Desktop Manager. My graphic board (I talk about it in the video) is a Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT.

I can remove the icon, not the soft of Nvidia, cause don't work my graphic board. There are no differences if I remove the icon, I already do, do you want record another video today with removed icon?
BTW I see NT without my problem in PC with same board.

Thanks for your answers, regards.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

@salakazam: Thanks again for clarification.

I reviewed the logs/traces you sent earlier and noticed that they would report a Intel PIII Xeon prozessor. We are no hardware experts but found that this processor was reviewed 1999 (10 ! years ago). Thus, we would not consider it a state-of-the-art processor as outlined in the NT hardware specs.

I suggest running NT on a state-of-the-art machine which then should provide a much better performance experience.

[TraderEyal]

Well said JS999. I have the exact same experience and reached similar conclusions. I now do almost all my charting in QuoteTracker alongside NT and use NT for order management only. I run QT with about 15 charts open with various symbols plus 4 watchlists with upwards of 100 symbols with zero issues including during heavy volume opens. Let's hope NT7 is going to live up to its promise when it is finally released.

P.S. I run an i7 920 machine with 6GB RAM, a 10,000 RPM drive and GeForce GTX285 with 1GB. I hope that's state of the art enough for NT7 because for NT6.5 it isn't.

[salakazam]

@salakazam: Thanks again for clarification.

I reviewed the logs/traces you sent earlier and noticed that they would report a Intel P3III Xeon prozessor. We are no hardware experts but found that this processor was reviewed 1999 (10 ! years ago). Thus, we would not consider it a state-of-the-art processor as outlined in the NT hardware specs.

I suggest running NT on a state-of-the-art machine which then should provide a much better performance experience.


WOOOOOUUUUU!!!!

Sorry, how do you know this? please tell me where you can see this. Becouse when I chek "My PC propertis" I see: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @2.50GHz"

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/salakazam/pcproperties.jpg

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

You'll find this in your traces file:
2009-07-07 12:59:27:328 Processor='Procesador Intel Pentium III Xeon'

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

@JS999: Could you please provide a simple as possible scenario which would demonstrate the load issues you're experiencing. At best you sent your workspace files to "dierk AT ninjatrader DOT com".

I'd like to try 2 things:
a) see how your setup would perform on my ~3years old office machine
b) use your setup as reference for our internal NT7 performance tests

To clarify: performance gains in NT7 Ray or I reported earlier in different threads are related to management of historical data and have nothing to do with real-time data issues reported in this thread.

Thanks in advance

[JS999]

@JS999: Could you please provide a simple as possible scenario which would demonstrate the load issues you're experiencing. At best you sent your workspace files to "dierk AT ninjatrader DOT com".

I'd like to try 2 things:
a) see how your setup would perform on my ~3years old office machine
b) use your setup as reference for our internal NT7 performance tests

To clarify: performance gains in NT7 Ray or I reported earlier in different threads are related to management of historical data and have nothing to do with real-time data issues reported in this thread.

Thanks in advance

First of all, you aren't going to notice performance problems under normal market conditions. If you just open up NT and run it you will probably notice nothing wrong, since most of the time the market isn't moving very fast and the volume isn't that high.

Here is my suggestion:

Set up a fresh copy of NT on two similar machines side-by-side, connect both of them to Zen-Fire. On each of them, open up one single chart: a 1 minute chart on one of them, and a 2-Range chart on the other. Then watch the market right at the open on the US indices on the Russell (TF). You can also watch Crude Oil (CL) at around 2:25 to 2:30 EST during the closing minutes of the pit trade, soybeans (ZS) between 2:10 to 2:15 EST, or the US indices again from 3:57 to 4:00 EST. Try to watch before any big news releases as well - I believe this week we have unemployment claims tomorrow at 8:30 AM EST which should move the market, as well as GDP numbers on Friday at 8:30 AM EST which should do the same.

Observe that the range chart copy lags behind the minute chart copy. Make sure that you have Task Manager open so you can monitor the CPU usage for each process and see how it jumps. Time + sales is another thing that really eats up the CPU - in fact, I can't actually use it at all because during heavy volume periods it tends to lock up the UI interface a bit, at least on the demo. You may have to do this type of testing a few times, since you can't 100% predict exactly how much any given event is going to move the market... you should really be watching it during the heavy volume spikes that we sometimes get, usually on those big trend days like what we had a few times over the past 2 weeks.

The problem with giving you my setup is that it's already about as optimized as I can get it... I can send it to you, but I don't think you should use it as reference - you should be using a standard default fresh copy of NT as your reference, since that is what most people install. The main trading copy of NT that I have using the 10 second and 2 minute charts is more or less OK at this point (I think, I still have to test it on some heavy volume times which has been tough the past few days since things have been dead), but range charts lag for sure on heavy volume (and spike the CPU to 100%). Try it out for yourself and run some tests, you'll see what I am talking about.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

We can tweak the sim feed to produce any load we'd like. We are not reliant on actual market conditions for our internal performance tests.

Please feel free to send any setup which you think makes sense as per below for further investigation.

Thanks

[JS999]

We can tweak the sim feed to produce any load we'd like. We are not reliant on actual market conditions for our internal performance tests.

Please feel free to send any setup which you think makes sense as per below for further investigation.

Thanks

Ok, but if you think about it, wouldn't it just confuse things for me to send you my setup at this time? I mean, if I am claiming that the problems are internal to NT 6.5 and have nothing to do with my setup, then what is the point of seeing it? You guys should just run a range chart on your setup and make it run under heavy load, and compare that to exactly the same thing running on another copy with only a 1 minute chart. If you see the slowdown, then you'll realize that the problem is NT and my setup won't matter. If on the other hand you see perfectly normal performance, then obviously there is something I am doing (which I highly doubt, since I have been trying this out for months).

If I just sent you my setup and you tested that, what would it prove? Suppose it lags - great. But then you haven't narrowed down the problem at all, since you won't be testing it on a completely clean copy, and won't be able to definitely say that the range charts are the problem. If you see the lag with your own clean copy of NT then you'll know it's the code. Does that make sense?

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

We are not experiencing anything similar to your reports in our internal tests so far. Please let us know as you would be willing to provide the information (workspace) we need to isolate what you experience.

Thanks

[Mike_32]

Well I can tell you, I am currently working on changing broker. In fact I might just scrap NT altogether and use something else. The CPU spikes on an intel 3ghz quad core 1333fsb with 4gig 1333mhz DDR3 ram are the same as on a pentium 4 2.8ghz with 2gb of 533 ram. You would think it would be better, but it seems to just be the norm with NT. I don't believe its the ZF feed anymore I believe it to be NT itself because ZenFire is just a price ticker, its NT that makes it into bars. And it causes the bars to get delayed, sometimes by 50 seconds in the middle of the volatile US session which causes losses on getting out in time or getting filled on time. I thought this was manipulation but since with discussions with the broker have found its due to NT using to much CPU ALL the time. Even with no custom indicators installed, no templates, no workspaces, only 1 chart open, it still regularly spikes the CPU usage and slows down the displaying of bars.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Guys,

There are many variables that can impact the client side performance.

- Our software
- Your hardware
- Your network/ISP
- Broker technology and network

We run internal tests where we flood our software with high frequency number of ticks to review load and efficiency. These tests meet our expectations.

Hardware, I will just assume you run adequate hardware.

Our software, we provide options to process our UI's on each coming tick or based on timers. Most software applications don't provide this granularity and most drive their UI's off of timers since otherwise their UI's would get overloaded.

Most market data vendors and/or brokerage technologies throttle/filter their data so you don't get every tick update but rather a several snapshots per second. They do this for several reasons. To reduce the amount of data that is being sent over the wire, to control the frequency of data updates sent through the wire. All of which has a positive impact on performance and can save them costs.

In situations where you are connected to an unfiltered feed, if you have a poor connection to the internet, you can easily and quickly build data buffers on the server side. This simply means that the sheer amount of data that is trying to be sent to you is queued since your connection can't handle it for some reason. If this happens, you get data bursting as large chunks of lagging data make it through in a split second which will immediately overwhelm NinjaTrader since it has to process all of this data in a split second. In the event that a buffer is too large or its duration is too long, the network engineers at Zen-Fire will actual flag this and action is taken to inform the customer. Most of the time, these buffers clear out quickly as they generally happen in volatile times.

In contrast, vendors who throttle their data generally don't see server side buffering since they limit the amount of data that is being sent hence, you get a even flow of data that will not overwhelm any connected client.

I am not suggesting this the issue but merely trying to provide some ideas as to why you might see some locking/freezing during volatile periods.

That being said, we have made improvements in memory consumption and CPU usage across the board in NT7.

[salakazam]

You'll find this in your traces file:
2009-07-07 12:59:27:328 Processor='Procesador Intel Pentium III Xeon'

I have not clue why this happen, because my processor is an Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @2.50GHz (open my pC to see). But no problem, because I solved my issue.

Yes, is not a problem with my chip, is with some properties of my nView Desktop Manager. You did right when pointed the icon, not the icon but I disconnect all properties and now is working fine. I test in other PC with same problem, deactivate this properties and works again.

Maybe other user with this problem can solve making the same (see "control panel" "nView Desktop Manager", deactivate properties in desktop manager tab).

If any user can find exactly which property crash with NT, please post here.

Thanks for your advices. Especialy to poin the Nvidia issue, because all the other tips are unnecessary, I´m working now with all my workspaces, indicators, calculate on bar close to false, etc...

Regards.

[JS999]

Guys,

There are many variables that can impact the client side performance.

- Our software
- Your hardware
- Your network/ISP
- Broker technology and network

We run internal tests where we flood our software with high frequency number of ticks to review load and efficiency. These tests meet our expectations.


Can you be more specific by exactly what you mean when you say "meets your expectations"? I'd like to know what hardware you ran on, how many charts you had open, if you had a time and sales window open, and/or a DOM, what was your lookback period, what indicators you had on there, whether your chart refresh interval was set to 0 or to some other timer value, and so on. Saying that "it meets your expectations" doesn't tell us anything, because your expectations might not be my expectations as a scalper. I want to know exactly what you ran that you think is acceptable.



Our software, we provide options to process our UI's on each coming tick or based on timers. Most software applications don't provide this granularity and most drive their UI's off of timers since otherwise their UI's would get overloaded.


On this note, I have a feeling that the slowdowns people are experiencing may have to do with something in your screen redraw routines. I have noticed a relatively significant performance improvement when I removed all the horizontal grid lines from my charts (I used to have horizontal grid lines specified with a value of 1, meaning it would put a line at every tick). Is it possible that this is causing slowdowns when the market is running because it attempts to redraw all of these lines at every tick?


In situations where you are connected to an unfiltered feed, if you have a poor connection to the internet, you can easily and quickly build data buffers on the server side. This simply means that the sheer amount of data that is trying to be sent to you is queued since your connection can't handle it for some reason. If this happens, you get data bursting as large chunks of lagging data make it through in a split second which will immediately overwhelm NinjaTrader since it has to process all of this data in a split second. In the event that a buffer is too large or its duration is too long, the network engineers at Zen-Fire will actual flag this and action is taken to inform the customer. Most of the time, these buffers clear out quickly as they generally happen in volatile times.

So what you are saying is that large chunks of unfiltered data streamed into NinjaTrader can overwhelm the system. In this example you are citing that happening as a result of lagging buffered data which gets sent all at once in a burst, and that's fine.... but sometimes you just legitimately have large volumes of unfiltered data coming in during real-time because that's what the market is doing. Not every data burst is buffering, sometimes the market is just going crazy and there are a lot of trades to process, correct?

So whether it gets buffered or not is not the issue - the issue is what happens when NT receives a large chunk of unfiltered data, whether it was delayed or not. If you can't handle an unfiltered data feed when it bursts large amounts of data, then this is a problem and you shouldn't be advertising this software as being capable of handling an unfiltered feed.


In contrast, vendors who throttle their data generally don't see server side buffering since they limit the amount of data that is being sent hence, you get a even flow of data that will not overwhelm any connected client.


Agreed, but the bottom line is that this piece of software is being advertised as working with an unfiltered data stream like Zen-Fire, so it needs to work properly with it. Are you saying that it's impossible to write a piece of software that can handle these unfiltered data bursts properly without lagging, even on the most powerful machines we have today? If so, then Zen-Fire needs to be changed somehow, because they are providing data that is impossible for vendors to work with properly. If not, then the problem is on your end. The bottom line is that the system has to work on first install, with typical settings, without significant delays, whether the market is running or not. Saying that other vendors don't provide unfiltered data doesn't change the fact that NT is trying to run with it and getting overwhelmed. The final result is the thing that matters here, and whether it's your fault or Zen-Fire's fault you guys need to work with it to get it resolved.



I am not suggesting this the issue but merely trying to provide some ideas as to why you might see some locking/freezing during volatile periods.


I am almost 100% certain that the locking and freezing has to do with screen drawing... the system is perfectly able to handle things without any lag when you just have a time and sales window and DOM open... it's when you add more and more charts that things get bad under heavy load.


That being said, we have made improvements in memory consumption and CPU usage across the board in NT7.

Hopefully you have spent time trying to optimize those routines, especially the ones that draw constant volume/tick/range bars, as these tend to lag minute bars in terms of performance.

[eDanny]

"I am almost 100% certain that the locking and freezing has to do with screen drawing... the system is perfectly able to handle things without any lag when you just have a time and sales window and DOM open... it's when you add more and more charts that things get bad under heavy load. "

I think you probably are 100% wrong on this point. Modern video cards are so fast when it comes to 2D drawing, I don't think you could significantly slow them down. The problem with multiple charts and such during heavy load is because of all the calculation being done by many indicators BEFORE the charts get re-drawn. Just my 2 cents.

[JS999]

Ray, I don't know how your software is set up, but there should be the absolute minimum necessary processing being done before the screen redraw happens, since that is what the user sees and uses to make decisions. Are you currently writing to disk and drawing to the screen all in one thread? If so, you could change it so that after screen refresh (which takes priority and happens first), data is placed into a memory buffer somewhere where another thread polls it and periodically flushes it to the HD. I don't know if you're already doing something like this or not, but it's a suggestion...

[JS999]

"I am almost 100% certain that the locking and freezing has to do with screen drawing... the system is perfectly able to handle things without any lag when you just have a time and sales window and DOM open... it's when you add more and more charts that things get bad under heavy load. "

I think you probably are 100% wrong on this point. Modern video cards are so fast when it comes to 2D drawing, I don't think you could significantly slow them down. The problem with multiple charts and such during heavy load is because of all the calculation being done by many indicators BEFORE the charts get re-drawn. Just my 2 cents.

Maybe - and that was my initial impression too, which is why I never thought of removing the horizontal lines. All I know is that removing them improved performance... something seems to be happening there.

[eDanny]

Again, it is not the video card lagging from drawing a few lines. The chart is also calculated and readjusted and more horizontal lines could mean more cpu usage also. Just guessing on this point but it makes sense since the chart draw routines are, of course, just more code. Notice during freezes the charts are not half drawn or misshapen in any way. They just stop, waiting for the video card draw routines which are waiting on info from the backed up data.

[JS999]

Again, it is not the video card lagging from drawing a few lines. The chart is also calculated and readjusted and more horizontal lines could mean more cpu usage also. Just guessing on this point but it makes sense since the chart draw routines are, of course, just more code.

I wasn't suggesting that the video card itself was responsible for the lag... that would be ridiculous in this day and age, considering what modern cards can do. The lag is obviously CPU related, so maybe NT is doing something prior to redrawing those lines that is taking up the time. I can't see their code so I have no idea what they could be doing...

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

I have not clue why this happen, because my processor is an Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @2.50GHz (open my pC to see). But no problem, because I solved my issue.

Yes, is not a problem with my chip, is with some properties of my nView Desktop Manager. You did right when pointed the icon, not the icon but I disconnect all properties and now is working fine. I test in other PC with same problem, deactivate this properties and works again.

Maybe other user with this problem can solve making the same (see "control panel" "nView Desktop Manager", deactivate properties in desktop manager tab).

If any user can find exactly which property crash with NT, please post here.

Thanks for your advices. Especialy to poin the Nvidia issue, because all the other tips are unnecessary, I´m working now with all my workspaces, indicators, calculate on bar close to false, etc...

Regards.

Thanks for your feedback. Glad your issue is resolved.

[RJay]

FYI,

I only had a problem with a slow computer when I had one specific indicator on a chart overnight.

This indicator is called SwingTemp.

I like this indicator. but it was death to my computer if I used it.

RJay

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

- NT is multi-threaded and the data storing for sure is on it's own thread, most of the time API data handling or on separate threads etc...
- We run tests all the time and I can't be specific at this second on what is defined as acceptable. I can say that in my trading life, I am a scalper, once I have time after I get my NT7 priorities behind me, I can look at more defined performance benchmarks
- Whether a data burst is buffered or not is really irrelevant, if you get a block of large amount of data that needs to be processed, depending on the demands of a users workspace, this will impact the ability to process. There is a reason why most vendors filter --> That was my point. If you want consistent low, CPU utilization, use NinjaTrader with Interactive Brokers. There just is not as much data to process. On regular high volatile periods of time, there can be a difference in performance if we got 100 ticks evenly distributed over a second vs 100 ticks at more or less the same split second. The latter will have a heavier processing cost. This is just physics.

[JS999]

- NT is multi-threaded and the data storing for sure is on it's own thread, most of the time API data handling or on separate threads etc...
- We run tests all the time and I can't be specific at this second on what is defined as acceptable. I can say that in my trading life, I am a scalper, once I have time after I get my NT7 priorities behind me, I can look at more defined performance benchmarks
- Whether a data burst is buffered or not is really irrelevant, if you get a block of large amount of data that needs to be processed, depending on the demands of a users workspace, this will impact the ability to process. There is a reason why most vendors filter --> That was my point. If you want consistent low, CPU utilization, use NinjaTrader with Interactive Brokers. There just is not as much data to process. On regular high volatile periods of time, there can be a difference in performance if we got 100 ticks evenly distributed over a second vs 100 ticks at more or less the same split second. The latter will have a heavier processing cost. This is just physics.

I completely agree with your last statement - if there is too much data, it is more difficult to process all at once. That doesn't change the final result however, which is the fact that it makes trading during volatile times extremely difficult. Right at the very point where you need the data to be up-to-the-millisecond accurate on-screen is precisely where it slows down - which essentially makes your software unusable. Identifying the issue as being too much data streaming in is all good, but that doesn't solve the problem. So is the issue solvable or not? If not, then there is something very wrong with Zen-Fire in its current implementation because it means that it's impossible for you to write software to make it work properly during heavy volume times, which incidentally happen to be the most critical. It means that ZF is unusable as a data feed.

Here's an idea: can you not have a user setting that we can enable to filter out this data under heavy load? In other words, NinjaTrader itself could detect if too much data has come in all at once, and auto-enable some type of filtering instead of trying to automatically process all of it in the order it came in. I would rather have that happen and miss a few ticks during volatile times, instead of having it bravely try to process a chunk of data that occurred 5-10 seconds ago while I am sitting there in the dark wondering what is happening in the real-time market. In trading, current information is what's important, ESPECIALLY during the volatile times. Is this possible?

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

There are many thousands of users on NinjaTrader/Zen-Fire and there is only a handful who have had performance issues reported to us during volatile times. Your suggestion of monitoring on the client side is an interesting idea and I will add that to our list for consideration. At this time, my priorities are completing NinjaTrader 7 and not introducing any new features at the expense of slipping our schedule again.

[JS999]

There are many thousands of users on NinjaTrader/Zen-Fire and there is only a handful who have had performance issues reported to us during volatile times. Your suggestion of monitoring on the client side is an interesting idea and I will add that to our list for consideration. At this time, my priorities are completing NinjaTrader 7 and not introducing any new features at the expense of slipping our schedule again.

Ray, thanks for the response. I completely agree with you that your #1 priority should be to finish NT 7 and get it out the door. Having said that, the reason that thousands of people are using NT/ZF and not complaining is because the vast majority of them are probably not scalpers, and therefore may not notice that it is lagging under heavy conditions. This is further supported by the fact that NT is not exactly what I would call a scalper-friendly platform, in that it doesn't have basic features like hotkeys - which means that most scalpers will be looking elsewhere. You are not getting many complaints because most scalpers are not trading on this platform, not because there are no problems.

I am glad that you liked my idea - please do investigate something like that, since as you know it is far more important to accurately know where the market is right now instead of processing every last tick in the order it is received. I think that it should be obvious that as it stands NT does have problems with Zen-Fire under heavy conditions, particularly with multiple charts open. I have been able to get around this by running on an extremely powerful CPU with only 3 charts open with just about no indicators on them, and with very short look-back periods. I can't even run a time + sales window because it kills performance - I have to run that in a separate virtual machine, and run my longer-term charts in another separate virtual machine. Really, I shouldn't have to do this just to get the software to display accurate and timely market data under volatile conditions.

Once you are done with NT 7 rollout, please make this performance issue the first thing on your priority list, since displaying accurate data always has to be the primary function of any piece of charting software, and if it can't do that without serious compromises then it's a pretty big problem.

Thanks!

[qewcool]

I just stumble on this thread because I have the exact problems with zenfire and NT6.5 spiking the CPU at volatile period like the open freezing everything at worst or lagging the price update on charts at best. That is frustrating to say the least as it is the very moment where you need the information.

I agree with JS999 and the other posters here ... there seems to be a real problem with the underlying code of NT6.5.

So my hope is on NT7, I hope you address the issues the JS999 described in NT7. Cant wait to see the release of the beta.

Also reading JS999, I realized I had lately added a range chart up too ... coincidence ? I guess I will need to scratch that chart. But seriously, how can u say there is no problem when you cant have a range chart in a charting software ? also cant have a workspace besides the default. cant run the data recorder either from what I read.

Will take range chart off and see if it solve the problem.

[JS999]

I just stumble on this thread because I have the exact problems with zenfire and NT6.5 spiking the CPU at volatile period like the open freezing everything at worst or lagging the price update on charts at best. That is frustrating to say the least as it is the very moment where you need the information.

I agree with JS999 and the other posters here ... there seems to be a real problem with the underlying code of NT6.5.

So my hope is on NT7, I hope you address the issues the JS999 described in NT7. Cant wait to see the release of the beta.

Also reading JS999, I realized I had lately added a range chart up too ... coincidence ? I guess I will need to scratch that chart. But seriously, how can u say there is no problem when you cant have a range chart in a charting software ? also cant have a workspace besides the default. cant run the data recorder either from what I read.

Will take range chart off and see if it solve the problem.

You actually can run a range chart, but not much else. On one of my setups right now I have a single 3 range chart and a 20 second chart, both with a lookback period of a couple of hundred bars. No crazy indicators on there, just a MACD and a couple of MAs... seems to work more or less OK, even in heavy market conditions. However, you cannot load up your workspace with 6 or 7 charts looking back a few days each - that will kill your CPU on an instrument like crude oil when it is volatile. The reason a lot of people don't complain is (a) most people aren't scalpers, and (b) most people trade instruments like ES, which don't move that fast. Basically it's high-volume, high volatility stuff like CL which gives problems... but you can solve it by running multiple virtual machines with a copy of NT in each of them, to split up the processing amongst your CPU cores (assuming you have a quad-core CPU of course). You keep one copy with minimal charts and DOM just for trade entry, one copy for long term charts, and maybe one copy for medium terms charts... that splits up the processing and makes it usable.

[qewcool]

I trade ES and have 4 charts with lookback of 15 days. one of them was a range chart. 2 are profile chart and another a renko.

I dont scalp if you define scalp as 1- 4 ticks. I do more position trade/daytrade.

The range chart is out and I put in a renko instead. Lets see how it performs.
I have IB running on another computer and fortunately that one does not freeze when NT does.

was looking to switch to NT and zenfire but gone wait to see NT7.

I have AMD dual core but thought the OS was already splitting the work between the 2 cores ? you say i need a virtual machine to use both core ?

I am thinking of getting a quad core too if it comes to that.

[JS999]

I trade ES and have 4 charts with lookback of 15 days. one of them was a range chart. 2 are profile chart and another a renko.

I dont scalp if you define scalp as 1- 4 ticks. I do more position trade/daytrade.

The range chart is out and I put in a renko instead. Lets see how it performs.
I have IB running on another computer and fortunately that one does not freeze when NT does.

was looking to switch to NT and zenfire but gone wait to see NT7.

I have AMD dual core but thought the OS was already splitting the work between the 2 cores ? you say i need a virtual machine to use both core ?

I am thinking of getting a quad core too if it comes to that.

It's not fully multi-threaded, so on my quad core PC it can't take advantage of all 4 cores unless I run 4 separate copies of NT (which I do). I would definitely suggest getting the best and fastest processor you can, NT is very CPU intensive.

Renko charts are almost worse than range charts in terms of performance, from what I can remember... try it out and see. I would set up a virtual machine with a second copy of NT running all your long range charts, and then run your main copy of NT with a single chart and DOM for trading. You can download free virtualization software at www.virtualbox.org.

[saroj]

I have not clue why this happen, because my processor is an Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @2.50GHz (open my pC to see). But no problem, because I solved my issue.

Yes, is not a problem with my chip, is with some properties of my nView Desktop Manager. You did right when pointed the icon, not the icon but I disconnect all properties and now is working fine. I test in other PC with same problem, deactivate this properties and works again.

Maybe other user with this problem can solve making the same (see "control panel" "nView Desktop Manager", deactivate properties in desktop manager tab).

If any user can find exactly which property crash with NT, please post here.

Thanks for your advices. Especialy to poin the Nvidia issue, because all the other tips are unnecessary, I´m working now with all my workspaces, indicators, calculate on bar close to false, etc...

Regards.

I am looking at the nView Desktop Manager dialogue box / Desktop Managment tab right now... I have 3 subwindows:
1) nView Desktop Manager "To turn on all the nView DM features, click Enable" (so mine are NOT enabled);
2) NView DM wizard... grayed out
3) Display properties with 2 hot spots (buttons): "Properties" where the resolution, appearance, screen saver, etc. are specified; and "Display Wizard"

then there is an "About" hotspot...

I don't understand what is meant by "disconnect all properties" nor how one would do it.

Thanks,
Saroj

[qewcool]

ok so today i took all renko charts out and put in a 5 min chart with 2 profile chart.

The CPU stayed at 50% practically the whole day and ninjatrader freezes up and shows up as "not responding" in windows task manager.

Usually its because it is processing all the tick data from zenfire and I leave it alone for it to finish .... takes about an hour or so after 10AM (ie the open period) for it to finish and update all the 3 charts graphically. Then it comes back to normal hovering around 10-20% CPU and no apparent lag until 3- 3:30 PM if the close is volatile. Then another hour or so after the close of ninjatrader "working" before the charts gets updated again

But today it stayed there ("not responding" and CPU at 50%) for the whole day and even 3 hours after the close at 16:15 EST. Its 19:30 EST and its not finished yet ... im giving up and killing the process.

This is FUBAR to say the least.

[meyer99]

Ray,
I trade CL and use range charts. I use Zen fire and have no antivirus and have firewall disabled. Also store realtime bar data disabled. I also have the same problem: all charts freezing when the CL contract has high volatility (mainly every Wednesday at 10:30 am when they release news on oil). I did not write the issue before since I thought it was my PC, Core2 E8400 with 2GB of RAM. There could be many other users like me.
I hope you can find the problem and solve it.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Ray,
I trade CL and use range charts. I use Zen fire and have no antivirus and have firewall disabled. Also store realtime bar data disabled. I also have the same problem: all charts freezing when the CL contract has high volatility (mainly every Wednesday at 10:30 am when they release news on oil). I did not write the issue before since I thought it was my PC, Core2 E8400 with 2GB of RAM. There could be many other users like me.
I hope you can find the problem and solve it.

Hello meyer99,

Thank you for your post.

Please send a note to Support [AT] NinjaTrader [DOT] com with "ATTN: Chris" in the subject line.

In the message, please include the following:
1.) A link to this forum thread.
2.) Your most current trace file.

You will find the file here: My Documents > NinjaTrader 6.5 > Trace > trace.YYYYMMDD.txt

[meyer99]

Chris,
I send email but I do not think it includes the trace from 1-21 which is the day with issues. let me know if I have to send again at end of day or when NT is closed.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Chris,
I send email but I do not think it includes the trace from 1-21 which is the day with issues. let me know if I have to send again at end of day or when NT is closed.


Hello meyer99,

I did receive your trace file and will reply to your email after reviewing.

[marketmasher]

I too have noticed the "Not Responding" problem lately and it is only after I have added a Range Chart to my 3 other time-based charts. Even the load time on a Replay has jumped tremendously. I Reset my database but it doesn't improve the system response.

[meyer99]

Chris,
Any news?

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Hello meyer99,

Did you receive my reply to the email you had sent that day? If not please forward me your file for the date this last occured so I can take a look again.

You can send the file to Support [AT] NinjaTrader [DOT] com with "ATTN: Chris" in the subject line.

In the message, please include the following:
1.) A link to this forum thread.
2.) Your trace file

You will find the file here: My Documents > NinjaTrader 6.5 > Trace > trace.YYYYMMDD.txt

[meyer99]

Can you resend your reply. I never saw it.

I will send you another file.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

Can you resend your reply. I never saw it.

I will send you another file.


Yes, I just resent my reply from 01/21/2010 to your gmail account. Please let me know if you do not receive my reply.

[meyer99]

Chris,
I sent another file.

[billr]

So what's the deal with NT/Zenfire freezing in fast markets? Seems to be a pretty well known problem.

I have been considering a change, but hesitate because of the growing reputation that NT cannot handle the unfiltered Zenfire data feed.

?????

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

So what's the deal with NT/Zenfire freezing in fast markets? Seems to be a pretty well known problem.

I have been considering a change, but hesitate because of the growing reputation that NT cannot handle the unfiltered Zenfire data feed.

?????

Can you please tell me what version of NinjaTrader you currently have installed which can be found under Help-->About.

[billr]

I run NT 7.0.0.23.

To clarify, I have not had the freeze problem with ZenFire because I don't currently use it. But I am considering changing brokers and using ZenFire and know of several traders who have been having pretty serious problems with freezes that last long enough to cost a trade.

I also remember reading somewhere that the unfiltered data from ZF can overwhelm NT. If this is the case, I was wondering if there is a tech solution (processors/ram/limiting # charts etc) or should one consider a filtered, but less accurate data source (prefer not to).

Thanks.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

We have not had this issue reported in a while with Zen-Fire users however I have included a link below to our Performance Tips that will help reduce the amount of resources being used within NinjaTrader..

http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/helpguide.html?PerformanceTips1

[billr]

OK. I have reviewed that section. Assuming all else is maximized, and If the data stream can overload NT, what would help most, if any:
CPU, ram, other? I assume CPU might be the weak link. If so, can you recommend what to look for (dual core/quad/speed)?

Thanks.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherJ]

This varies from user to user as far as what works best since this would depend on the setup you plan to run. I would suggest the more RAM the better however other users may have input on the type of processor they are running and what seems to work well.

I have provided a link below that goes over Minimum PC Requirements.
http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/support_installationguide.htm